? whipper snipper carby ?? Makita RST210 ??

[steptoe]

OK, who understands small engine carbies ?

I got a little ripper Makita RST210 from Bunnings back in Feb.
Started so easily four or five prime pumps then first pull every time for two months then....

I recall its idle suddenly increased once choke was off - I backed off the adjust screw to sort that.

Now, may be coincidental that since about then it won't start until about the fortieth pull

First suspected cause was thought to be seasonal - ie COLD !

But, there is a youtube of one starting in the snow 3rd pull - someone else is happy.

See very bottom of post for youtube clip link for Sams sake



review Makita RST210 search google not happpy customer bad, naughty Makita RST210 from Bunnings

Maybe naughty operator for adjusting too fast idle ??

er, just a few key words in case anyone doing a google search review.



If I spray start ya bastard by nulon, aerostart by aerostart or even CRC556 into its carby - starts first pull but then stops as fuel not kept up to it. Ten goes like this will get it running.

This is the basic any engine diagnostic way to see if it is spark of fuel issue. Says either fuel, or as waranty repair guy sayas "operator issue"

When choke is on, the throttle is stepped up a notch for increased speed, yet as not throttle plate there is no choke plate either. man says the choke lifts the rotary throttle up - I see it held open more than standard idle position.

When choke thing is on, I cannot see a direct link to what holds speed up. Repair guy says it lifts the roatry throttle up. ? .

So...who unnerstands the rotary style throttle carbies not a butterfly valve throttle. As you pull throttle cable, round piston like thing opens up for air to breathe in.

The choke is a simple spring assisted red push button that holds throttle open _ I do not think or see the idle screw adjust has any effect on the opening position.

Depending on where and what you read, this unit has one or two year warranty. Think mine was one year home and/or commercial use which is encouraging.

Have read Robin makes the engine, Robin by Subaru/ Fuji ??

Have only ever used clean 95 fuel and Stihls 50:1 oil mix, checkd with Makitas 1300 number to confirm it is acceptable - it is. They also claim that the string cord is 2.5mm yet the cord that came with it was only 2.0mm by my verniers



Makita have supplied me an authorised repairers name, dropped around to talk to them. Explained last time they sent me to an authorised Briggs & Stratton agent I was near robbed as they went ahead without authorisation on non warranty work _ I put my mower in for warranty Never again with the old bastard. fat old bastard went on about if a mower is brought in its fixed, didn't care about authorisation. I'm still thinking about a little line to consumer affairs ....

I do not want a bill to 'repair' my snipper that is under 'warranty'
Being told it will be warranty if it is found to be a manufacturing fault for my no start. The minmum is $45 for 30 min consultation. New snipper is $199 - see my torment ?? Warranty can be worth a turd some times!

I have found out:

1.0 with the primer bubbles - the fuel is circulating from tank to carb and back to tank so can never flood the carby with the primer bubble no matter how many times you pump it!

2.0 with the choke on, you can flood engine if left on for more than 4 starter cord pulls - so verbal instruction was try let choke off if not started in 4 pulls, then continue trying

3.0 Pull #41 can lead to a torn neck muscle feeling - momentarily crippling me

4.0 double the elbow clearance distance coz it effin hurts when elbow contacts solid object - even five days later

5.0 I am ready to jump on it like I did with my Ryobi that did not deserve it after 18 years lotyal service.

It has spark, the CRC proves that
It does not appear to have any filters at the ends of the fuel pick up - might be wrong.

Once it starts no problem - runs like it did first day

Don't get me wrong - this little 21 cc engine has some amazing power and response and power figures displayed on its tag and that off twice the price four strokes nearly on par, but way lighter.

When running it is a little pisser, a little ripper, rave review for the Makita RST210 that seems to be a Bunnings only model or online or Gas Weld too. Were $239, most have dropped to $199
Does anyone understand these carbies ??

Or, someone like resourceful Jules find a guide to these carbies in set up, repair, exploded diagram etc, tuning tips - steppy'd be so greatful

I am think instruction is something like use a certain size/number drill to measure the rotary throttle opening at idle or at choke on or the like

As it is 'under warranty' reluctant to have to touch it but at the mercy of the trusted repair guy to find a 'manufacturing fault' as the cause.

Hey, I've already touched it, may as well touch it again

Have ensured always get clean fuel 95 and its mix ratio correct, would have running issues not starting issues .

Have emptied out fuel and started again with fresh fuel oil mix.

Just seems to be not right fuel air mix on choke for th colder air temps ??

Just one gripe on its construction is the basic old foam donut air filter - mind you did my Ryobi no problem in 18 years - I suppose I just like the Stihl filter pad idea .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCiw7u1XhSg

[TOONGA]

The carby has a blockage of some sort, more than likely from sitting in the shed and not being used. or the crankcase is full of 2 stroke oil from same reason.

the primer bubble should fill completely and then send fuel back to the tank.

Having just gone through this torment myself with a 5 dollar wipper snipper from the tip I can tell you there is a jet that needs cleaning.

Look externally as well as there is one air jet on the outside of the carby that blocks causing the engine not to run.

GOOD LUCK by the way ... I ended up buying a parts wippersnipper from the same tip and swapping the carby over... little bugger started first pop and made giant clouds of oils smoke until the crankcase was clean.

TOONGA

[Cliff R]

I have, I think, 4 whipper snipers and they all vary in how hard they are to start (2 of them dont anymore)
The carbys are a nightmare to work on but I have found (with the aid of Mr Google) when I have located the slow speed and idle screws and adjusted them I have had some success. Also, some of these machines have their spark plugs on the lower side of the engine so the plugs cop a hiding from engine particles getting rammed into them during operation. Replacing the plug even if it looks like it sparks OK when its lead is attached and sitting outside the engine has worked for me. The plug sparks OK in the outside environment but under pressure in the engine the plug breaks down.
I dont know what brand of spark plug you have in the engine but NGK appear to be the best over Champion etc. There is usually a filter and/or a weighted end on the fuel pick up line as this weighs the end of the line down to the botton of the tank and stops it pulling air as the machine is thrown around in use.
Sorry, I am not much more help.
I think these machines are a pain in the A** at the best of times and designed by a very sadistic person.

[steptoe]

Yep, primer bubble is to get all air out of bubble and through carb, once it is clear of bubbles carb is ready.

Happens each and every time, was being used each week leading up to the bad start time so no old fuel.

Yes, not many people have the patience to rebuild these carbies. ned to hassle a mate who mentally thrives on these little things if you can get his attention , almost sauvant- like Macguyver sources bigger carbs for his RC boats, makes up copper power pipes and gives people impression the quiet calming waters of the silt pond has a jet ski running on it - sending rangers out to investigate

If there was a blockage it wouldn't run great once started though, eh ?
Its design is plug to top so harder to flood me thinks.

Ryobi was plug at bottom still, never flooded it, just grew some flora in the 18 year old carby and on reassemble primer bulb either flooded everywhere or wouldn't - so i jumped on it many times to get it in the bin - no $5 resale here

Here you on plug brand choice too. Don't think these babies have any hi lo speed air fuel adjust either.
Is just screaming out for an LPG conversion

[Brumby Kid]

No idea what you guys have said above but.
If you don't already know. You NEED a winter and a summer tune.
This is for all two stroke mini engines.

Cheers Cam

[revmax]

If you suspect it is flooded.
choke off
full throttle
pull till it fires and starts.


BUT it sounds like you have backed off the butterfly stop to much. Wind it clockwise 1/4 to 1/2 a turn and kick it in the guts.

[Silverbullet]

Jonno please put that youtube link at the very bottom of future posts, stops the whole post turning into one giant link

[steptoe]

OK. Job sorted for the day

The air filter is a foam donut style, already showing signs of deterioration like a 20 year old Subies air duct foam seals

Have plans to try adapt an LPG fuel filter of about 30mm diameter as an air filter !

I gave it a gentle wash and dry.

Tried a new plug - a chumpion resistor was all I had sitting around - no different
Factory was NKG I am happy to say

I got the little baby running, without my ear plugs in watched as the throttle turn with trigger and back again.

I left it to cool for 10 mins came back and one pull - start , came back in 20 mins, one pull and started, back after a 30 min cool down, 60 min, 120 min cool down - all starts with one pull NO CHOKE NO PRIME

30 min later needed three pulls to start.

What was different? It was sitting out in 19C day in the sun. Thae last attempt was after sun gone away and things cooling down, put me jumper back on too

Cam comes up with an awful lot of wisdom for his short 16 years, I have suspected for a while that he is actually portraying as a 16 year old boy..
I don't doubt Cam may have something there but never needed to retune nothin in my wonderful climate of minus 9 C to 41C. Had 27 degrees variation in last 36 hours.

I am doing my best not to have a service guy invent a reason to charge me, so the manufacturer wears whatever is involved to get it starting in the cold

[olddog642]

Howdy Jonno,
I'm not sure about your little ripper but I had a chainsaw and a whipper snipper a while back and they both had a small ceramic filter in the tank. They had a habit of becoming clogged with small droplets of water from condensation being the culprit.
But then again yours may not have a filter in the tank.
Hylton:twisted::evil:

[steptoe]

It does and it is pristine, thanks for trying . The ceramic makes it heavy and flops where ever the fuel sloshes. I reckon it is purely an ambient air temperature thing - feel much the same so maybe I need to move a more suitable climate for whipper snipper starting

[pitrack_1]

Johnno,

Here is a link I found handy with my old whipper snipper, from a gentleman called John C. Bridgers Sr.:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Small-Engine ... adjust.htm

I've copied and tided the text up below. Although specific to my old McCulloch/Ryobi, it does list variations e.g. less number of screws. Note some screws may be capped or otherwise covered/hidden/fixed, to prevent tampering by 'unauthorised persons'. They may also be colour coded.

Hope this helps, Pitrack_1.

----
Expert: John C. Bridgers Sr. - 12/29/2008


****All the Carburetor Adjustments are the Same for Lawn Mower and Trimmers. There are Several Location for the Air Mixture Screws. The Idle Air Mixture Screws are Usually Located at the Top of the Carburetor Bowl and the Top of the Carburetor Body. If the Main Air and Idle Air Mixture Screws are Side by Side on the Side of the Carburetor, then the Idle Air is Nearest the Engine. The Main Jet Air Mixture Screw is Located in the Bottom of the Carburetor Bowl or Beside the Idle Air Screw on the Side of the Carburetor Body. Some of the Older Model Carburetors have the Main Jet Mixture Screw Straight in from the Top of the Carburetor Body (this is Rare anymore).
1. If you have Cleaned the Carburetor (Disassembled and Soaked Overnight in Carburetor Cleaner (I Use Gunk). Then Blow Out the Passages with Compressed Air and Install a New Kit if Required.
2. Now Setting the
Multiple Air Mixture Screws:
a. ****Turn the Idle Air and Main Air Mixture Screws In Until SNUG **Do Not Jam**
b. Then Reverse Both Screws 1 1/2 Turns.
c. Holding the Throttle Full Open, Start the Engine.
d. Turn the Main Air Mixture Screw Clockwise Until Proper Revs are Obtained. Occasionally you May have to Turn this Counter Clockwise to Achieve the Proper Revs.
e. Now Allow the Engine to Idle. Set the Engine Idle Screw (Not Idle Air) so the Engine will Stay Running if Required.
f. Now Set the Idle Air Mixture Screw so there is No Hesitation when Throttling from Idle to Full Throttle.
g. Reset the Engine Idle if Required.
**** If This Carburetor has a Single Air Adjustment (Except Tank Mounted 9200 Model Carburetors),
a. Use the Section Above that Pertains to Full Throttle RPM Air Mixture Screw and then Adjust the Screw if Required to Eliminate Any Hesitation when Throttling from Idle to Full Throttle.
For the 9200 Model Tank Mounted Carburetor
a. Adjust the Air Mixture Screw Full In, then Reverse 1 1/2 Turns.
b. Set the Throttle Lever to Full Throttle and Start the Engine.
c. Now Carefully Use 1 Finger and Open the Throttle Plate and Over Rev the Engine Slightly.
d. If the Engine Over Revs and Does Not Struggle to Over Rev, then the Carburetor is Set. If the Engine Struggles to Over Rev, then Turn the Adjustment Screw In 1/4 Turn and Repeat the Over Rev Test.
e. If you Adjust to 1/2 Turns In and the Engine Still Struggles to Over Rev, then
- a. Return the Adjustment Screw to 1 1/2 Turns Out from Snug and Turn the Screw Out 1/4 Turn.
- b. Do the Over Rev Test.
- c. Continue this Process Until you have the Engine Over Revving without Struggle.
f. By Adjusting the Carburetor on this Style Carburetor Until the Engine Over Revs without Struggle, you have Adjusted the Air Mixture to the Best Possible Setting.
This file was Intended to Give you the Basic Carburetor Cleaning Instructions and May Not Reflect Your Carburetor Components. If you have Questions, Please Ask. If you Hit a Snag or this Does Not Correct the Problem, I am Here if You Require More Assistance. Hope this Helps. Let me Know What Happens, Please. Have a Happy Holiday Season and May the All Mighty Bless You and Yours. Be Safe and Happy. Thanks.

Good Luck

Respectfully

John

PS: I am Allowed to Answer 10 Questions a Day. If you See I am Maxxed Out, then Try Submitting your Question at or Just After 8pm EST (US). My New Day Starts then. Comments and Ratings are Greatly Appreciated. Thanks.

Respectfully

John
-----

[steptoe]

Thanks Patrick _ I hope your efforts were cut and paste for this carby has no adjustment screws for me to play with other than the idle stop screw. Left it out in the sun and she started after about four pulls, just last with choke.

This choke is set by pressing a red plastic post with a return spring. I see the top part of the retainer of the post and spring but feel it has a lower unseen portion that once set holds the rotary choke open about 25%. There is no choke plate that we are used to seeing covering intake with a small bleeder air hole. Think SU carbs.

Convinced it is a cold frog....

[pitrack_1]

Think I've hit a parts-ial (sorry) jackpot...see this link for an exploded diagram of your trimmer.

The main jet (part #109) seems to have no adjustment but the slow running screw (part #105) and the 'adjustment' screw (part #99) are near to each other.

Also manuals located at robinoutdoorpower.

Again, these don't seem to show how the throttle/choke mechanism works.

Happy reading!

One other thing: are you using fresh fuel (ie not stored-in-a-tin, stale fuel). I've found fresh fuel makes a world of difference to my 3hp Briggs & Stratton 4-stroke lawn mower engine when starting, especially winter in Canberra. Stale fuel sitting in its tank it does not like. I use some "stabil' in my 5l fuel tin to preserve the fuel.

Also, if you allow any 2-stroke fuel to sit in the trimmer, it will tend to varnish/gum it up. Run some fuel treatment in the fuel can help if it's not too bad. Otherwise a cleanout with carby cleaner is the go.

Had to do this to an old Ryobi (actually McCulloch) I was given- it had been left so long the fuel had totally evaporated and deposited a thick varnish inside everything- the fuel lines were rigid with the stuff. Replacement of lines, cleanout of carby (even reused the gaskets/seals) with carby cleaner and running with a bit of fuel system cleaner in the fuel got it going. About $60 for a new line head, filters, throttle cable, fuel lines and some TLC (read: fun tinkering) and I got me a real tough old whipper snipper.

Mind you, these old McCullochs, whilst indestructible, are effing-illegitimate-children to start at the best of times (touchy as) and impossible otherwise. That's what my carby tune doc referred to, and they had several different carbies fitted.

I'll stop now as my mouth/hands-on-keyboard is/are suffering from pre-ignition again...

[Brumby Kid]

Cam comes up with an awful lot of wisdom for his short 16 years, I have suspected for a while that he is actually portraying as a 16 year old boy..
I don't doubt Cam may have something there but never needed to retune nothin in my wonderful climate of minus 9 C to 41C. Had 27 degrees variation in last 36 hours.

I am doing my best not to have a service guy invent a reason to charge me, so the manufacturer wears whatever is involved to get it starting in the cold

Hahaha thanks Jonno.
That's why I love this website.
If you want to see my license I will gladly upload a photo
At my local golf club were I do a bit of work on the course occasionally.
We have a few chainsaws, we find they definitely need retuning.
They will have trouble starting and staying on.
They do it themselves of course.
This is one of the coldest spots in Adelaide, and then summer is always pretty hot.

Cheers Cam

[steptoe]

Patrick , EXCELLENT FIND thanks heaps - you've certainly saved me from pulling it apart to see how it works

I just tried a search in google and added the words spare parts and up it came - conclusion is google is not a mind reader.

Always use fresh 95 and Stihls 50:1 2 stroke oil

Did a compression test and by third pull was up to 130 psi

It is helpful knowing that the primer bulb does not flood, but excessive starting with choke on will. Leave it in the sun and starts better.

Main point to note s for the first two months I had it was five prime pumps, switch on, set choke and one pull would start every time then grew horns

No summer or winter settings to be made on this eh Cam ? Except maybe the idle speed screw but does squat in choke

If it is a cold frog and comes real good during summer again, it will rear its cold frog trait outside the warranty next winter

[pitrack_1]

Jonno,

(quotes our of order- sorry, trying to make a case)

Leave it in the sun and starts better.

I do the same, at least in winter in Canberra!

It is helpful knowing that the primer bulb does not flood, but excessive starting with choke on will.

Might be worth a test to see, after say 5-10 pulls, whether the spark plug is wet or not (flooded). If it is, then there's too much fuel getting in for some reason and maybe worth trying to start without choke button. But I think flooding's unlikely as it took 3 pulls you said on a 19C day after the sun went down (and you went for a jumper)- but temps drop quickly out of the sun in Canberra 11/12 months of the year. 30 mins in the late afternoon shade would render that small motor cold.

Main point to note s for the first two months I had it was five prime pumps, switch on, set choke and one pull would start every time then grew horns

I did note from the manual for your machine that it says prime 7-10 pumps. In the video they prime for 8 pumps and pull 3 times. Do you think this could actually pump fuel into the engine for starting, in which case 5 may not be enough? I can't really tell from the drawing, perhaps it's worth a go.

If it is a cold frog and comes real good during summer again, it will rear its cold frog trait outside the warranty next winter

You have the evidence to show the warranty centre that it should not be a 'cold frog'. Give a few more priming pumps a go, if it continues show them the youtube video to prove it should start in conditions colder than Canberra and make 'em fix it before it gets too hot again.

Patrick.

[steptoe]

Well here I am nearly a year later. I persevered with the little beauty.Not prepared to leave it with the authorised service agent until Makita advised me just what was considered to be 'operator error' that the service rep told me that would not be covered by warranty , must be paid for by me, starting at $45. Still waiting for that email reply .....

I could sometimes start it from cold without choke ! Sometimes would start better or start at all thankyou when I rolled it back on its side rather than its bum ! Then, most times when it would not start by pull six, seven or eight - I'd get the screwdriver out, undo the air filter case screw and prime the fuel circuit - then she'd fire enough after a few squirts to entice its own fuel through. Once started you'd never know it had issues.

Well, first mow of the new season and it started with my primer spray. Stopped and rested while I stopped and rested, then no bloody start ! Next thing I know the starter pack is flexy away off the main body ?? Careful look revealed two of the three screws into alloy body had left the scene. Determined to finish, I primed her, held the starter against her body and pull ...zip....the cord failed to retract......

Found myself in Bunnings today, just staring at the new one on display ....dunno why I do that to myself ....??? Walked past it again, empty handed, compare it to the others on display - still one of the nicest balanced little petrol snippers there - especially so seeing it is only 21cc !! of course no Stihls coz they can't sell them , so I can't compare eh ?

Finally a staffer asks me if he can help me, so tell him my woes, what i think of Makita PR, what I think the 2 year warranty is worth and he tells me if I still have the receipt, bring it in and they can give me a newie! Yeah ? Suggested I talk to the fella doing weekend power tool servicing outside. This guy also agreed - covered by warranty - manufacturing problem.

So, raced home, found docket, warranty card, chucked the baby in the back and raced back - fitted a shower in between somewhere - fronted up to the returns counter - determined to get this over and done with the same day three guys now supported me - no point going in Monday when someone else has a different opinion ! Found the guys to check it out - swappped, no fuss
This little unit made in Japan, its bigger brother the 4 stroke at more than double the price is marked as Robin. 2 stroke was not, must be a half brother to Robin

Goldstar to current staff at Bunnings

[ajcmbrown]

Great result! how does the new one run?

[El_Freddo]

That's awesome - I'm now considering picking one up as our old hand me down has given up

Cheers

Bennie

[tambox]

Well done Jonno, can't fix it, get a new one, freabie is the best value/satisfaction.