WHITWORTH threads ! Why still use it??

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Don't it drive you nuts how since we went metric in 1973 that hardware stores still supply all their odd bolts in bleeding whitworth threads - never Australian Fine or Coarse, even metric , all these real threads are only in the handy packs -of small quantity and big prices.
Just gotta be thankful the nuts are not in whitworth measures across them or is it just a fluke our imperial range of spanners fit?

Brings back nightmares of trying to buy a whitworth socket to reach a bad spot where an exhaust shop had fitted some friggin' hardware supply nut and bolt set to my old Ford. Ended up cutting the joiner out of the system

No offence to our few English members but this whitworth supply here is now a bit of a joke even if the bolt is for holding a fence together !!

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:35 am

steptoe wrote: No offence to our few English members but this whitworth supply here is now a bit of a joke even if the bolt is for holding a fence together !!

None taken - been a pain in rear for me since day dot

1111giles · Post by **1111giles** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:10 am

steptoe wrote: No offence to our few English members but this whitworth supply here is now a bit of a joke even if the bolt is for holding a fence together !!

None taken Jonno - The UK is virtually 100% metric now - metric being the first choice here now in manufacture.
The only time we see whitworth (which sounds like somewhere in Lancashire to me

) is on old stuff - or if my Dad is tinkering with something in the workshop !! He got friggin boxes of old stock stuff like that - wanna buy some ??:)
ps will reply to your em tomoz ref the trailer.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:24 am

No offence - that's a relief

Used to work for a guy that specialised in shboxs , 2000 mkII, 2500, 2500S, 2500TC, Stag, Dollys and Sprints - had so much pleasure in tossing whitworth stuff out then, but you know still don't think the stuff at the hardware would fit the Trihards anyway - different pitch.
Three things I liked about the Trs - shape of the Dolly, sound of the Stag running at night with the roof off - and Wendy that owned one

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:45 pm

about 3 months ago, Bunnings sells eye hook in whiteworth threads and if i wanted to use it on something ie. tap on metal which is imparial.. its a real PITA!
Cheers
AP

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:52 pm

It took me 3 visits to Bunnings trying to match up random bolts or nuts from the Subaru before i realised i had to go to a bolt and fasteners store. I just couldn't comprehend how a hardware store couldn't have a simple m10 or m8 1.25 nut or bolt that i needed.

1111giles · Post by **1111giles** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:17 pm

steptoe wrote:No offence - that's a relief Used to work for a guy that specialised in shboxs , 2000 mkII, 2500, 2500S, 2500TC, Stag, Dollys and Sprints - had so much pleasure in tossing whitworth stuff out then, but you know still don't think the stuff at the hardware would fit the Trihards anyway - different pitch.
Three things I liked about the Trs - shape of the Dolly, sound of the Stag running at night with the roof off - and Wendy that owned one

Just for you Jonno - this was mine picture taken way back in 1997 on polaroid and scanned so sorry for the quality !
Sold it when Elly came along and used the funds towards my first Scoob - 5 dr Impreza. (more family friendly) miss that Vee8 throb:(

Hey - what's this cant upload images ??? I'll email them to you pal ! maybe an issue with scanned images because photobucket wont accept either ??!!

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:38 pm

I got them thanks Giles, I was wondering if it was a digital pic - looked brilliant, email them to youself and see!! Glad someone else beside myself and Disco has truble sharing pics.

Venom, you may find metric in those little blister packs at prices that will blister your card or wallet but they are there - just need to find one of the dedicated shelf packers who knows and cares. I loitered at the local for maybe 90 minutes in total the other day sorting my head and hardware (should have towed trailer and welder in there) not one retail/ warehouse staffer asked me if I needed assistance. " crackle...SECURITY TO AREA FIVE" crackle.... phew, I am in six !! I was greeted at the door from behind as I entered though

1111giles · Post by **1111giles** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:56 am

[quote="steptoe"]I got them thanks Giles, I was wondering if it was a digital pic - looked brilliant, email them to youself and see!! Glad someone else beside myself and Disco has truble sharing pics.

QUOTE]

No mat not digi's They are 35mm prints taken around 1997 on a Canon T70 SLR the prints then scanned on my Kodak scanner / printer and sent to my Laptop as a pdf - technology eh ?
Then emailed all the way to Ozland !:mrgreen:

Glad you liked then - I can tell you that car was a basket case when I first bought it ! The colour is/was carmine red (originally a white car which was then painted french blue). Happy days !
Stag engine hummmm - to - Subaru flat six 3.0 YESSSSSSS!

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:23 pm

what about that idiot that decided to use cycle thread? that is a pita too.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:27 am

'cycle thread"? tell us more. Must go with French difference in their pushbike components used to have to chase French cotter pins until I went cotterless cranks.

wrxer · Post by **wrxer** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:03 am

from http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bscbot.htm
BSCy
This fine thread profile was formulated for, and is well suited to cycle and motorcycle applications. Its fine pitch, allows high torque settings, and resists the tendancy to loosen under vibration, the larger core diameter also gives greater shear strength. Most people think that all cycle threads are 26 tpi pitch. Whilst this is true of all the most popular sizes from ¼¨ to ¾¨ diameter, other pitches were also used.

its that stupid size like on bicycle axles.
and this from wikipedia that explains why the correct sized whitworth spanners dont fit the bolts

Whitworth spanner (wrench) markings refer to the bolt diameter rather than the distance across the flats of the hexagon (A/F) as in other standards. Confusion also arises because BSF hexagon sizes can be one size smaller than the corresponding Whitworth hexagon. This leads to instances where a spanner marked 7/16BSF is the same size as one marked 3/8W. In both cases the spanner jaw width of 0.710 in, the width across the hexagon flat, is the same. However, in World War II the size of the Whitworth hexagon was reduced to the same size as the equivalent BSF hexagon purely to save metal during the war, and they never went back to the old sizes afterwards. Thus it is today uncommon to encounter a Whitworth hexagon which takes the nominally correct spanner. Spanners in this case may be marked 7/16BS to indicate that they have a jaw size of 0.710 in and are designed to take either the (later) 7/16 BSW or 7/16 BSF hexagon.

i got spanners in my tool box with 3 different sizes stamped on each end that dont fit any bolt i have ever come across.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:43 am

Isn't it time someone helped whitworth evolve - to extinction?

Time to pass those spanners on - I had a double ended, cranked at both ends, in 1/2" drive by sidchrome I got from my grandfathers estate, could never find a practical use for it in 24 years so handed it up to a brother to pass on in another near quarter of a century

90brumby · Post by **90brumby** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:18 pm

we still use witworth threads at work as there a soft bold and it allows the bolts to break before bending or braking the spray bar it bolts together

but yes it does get annoying finding them in lifting eyes and at bunnings

cheers tristan

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:10 pm

CORRECTION

CORRECTION

Well I'l be ! Not only did I spy M6 and M8 boltware in the trays at Bunnings but also found a staff member willing to talk and new his stuff. For years there has been gal nuts and bolts in metric in the general available hardware variety but not in the zinc plate. The zinc plate stuff, although marked imperially and thought to be whitworth is in fact UNC ! If you really want whitworth I am told, need to see a specialist bolt place !!

Battlewagon · Post by **Battlewagon** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:34 pm

I just hate metric threads.
They were probably designed by french accountants.
At least the old imperial threads suited the materials they were to be used in.
Ever tried undoing a stainless bolt with a metric thread? Or tapping a metric thread into cast iron?
Then there's those stupid american threads used on switches and small gas fittings. Aargh.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:15 am

No metric threads are good things , the Japanese have no problems with them .
What you have to remember is to use fasteners of the correct material spec for the application and plenty of loose nuts and bolts are made to a price rather than a standard nowdays .

People tend to dislike metric fasteners because they often come in several pitch sizes for a given shank diameter and for a given shank diameter there are different hexagon sizes at times .
Metric automotive threads tend to be fine but it isn't always the case . Over time I've been slowly buying metric taps in the sorts of thread pitches used in Japanese cars and it isn't cheap buying good ones .

Something to look out for with metric automotive bolts is a grade number on the head of them . A grade 8 bolt is of a higher material spec than a grade 5 one and costs more for the manufacturers to buy .
People who scour wreckers should build a collection of nuts/bolts/washers because good fasteners can be had cheaply as the places see no value in them .

I would rather use good second hand OE car fasteners or buy them from a place that specialises in them . God only knows what sort of cheesy fasteners Bunnings would sell you , probably great wall of garbage ones .

tony · Post by **tony** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:42 am

I bought a 20litre bucket of used nuts and bolts from a wrecker years ago when we went metric, as I had early holdens and could see the bolts running short.
will be doing the same with metric ones one of these days can usually get a bucket full for less than $20, which is a bargain when you price them individually.
Then spend hours sorting and grading them and cleaning them.
Once i bought a set of nuts from a local parts place to use on the con rods of my old Hudson, they all stripped at about 15ftlb, when I complained to United motors they said it was me doing them up too tight. And i had told them what I wanted them for.
I was told that the early Honda bikes had nuts and bolts that you could only replace with genuine Honda. nothing else would fit.

tex · Post by **tex** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:40 pm

At work we used to have three different types of imperial spanners I can't remember what they all were but one was the standard AF size one was the then obsolete british standard whitworth (I think) but I cant remember what the other ones were. meanwhile the other blokes used to wonder why when we refirbished cabinets they were made metric, because you you'd buy parts off the shelf and only needed to take one set of tools!