Workshop Benches! - Making them. What do you have/wish for?!

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Workshop Benches! - Making them. What do you have/wish for?!

Post by 60766244 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:15 pm

Okay so, I live in a rented house right now. The house has (thankfully) a large enough workshop.
The workshop came with suitable benches that came with the place but the owners have asked to have the benches back, so I asked them to wait until I can build some new ones. :rolleyes:
They agreed.
So this has given me the opportunity to make some new ones! :mrgreen:

Custom benches? I think so.

Right now I am looking at building this:

Image

I knocked together the design in a few hours and am still perfecting it. And I know there's lots of typos in the instructable, but I post on a few DIY forums too so I figured I'd ask your opinions.

The sizing of the modules has been setup so I could disassemble the bench and lift them one by one into the back of the brumby ute and have them all fit perfectly in the case I need to move house.

I've also changed the spec since I first designed the benches as enough 50x50x5mm steel is nearly double the price of the 50x50x3mm steel!

The benches will be Jarrah topped as I found some 30 year old planks I can use for these.

I also picked up about 10 square meters of checker-plate steel for free today so these benches might get more steel in them and less wood than before planned.

I also have 6 square meters of very heavy duty 5mm plastic I just picked up too. So I have lots of options for building these.

Designs/Criticisms/Hate/Love/Thoughts/Opinions - All Appreciated.
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Post by GOD » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:20 pm

With the base mostly enclosed as in your design, you won't be able to sweep or hose out any crap from underneath, so the castors are going to get jammed as soon as you try to move them.

The lower shelf that the jack pushes up against will probably have to be more substantial than the drawing indicates.

Enclosed sides make it difficult to get at whatever you have stored under the bench and make better spider homes than open sides.

I'd reconsider the dimensions - 600mm is bare minimum depth. My main workbench is 850 deep, which gives plenty of space for the job and to scatter tools and parts around it while you work. And unless you're a real little fella, they need to be higher. My benches are 1100mm high, which is perfect working height but makes the top of the big vice a smidge too high.

A box frame like that will be rock solid even with only 3mm angle. Back walls don't need to be framed with that much material.

www.autospeed.com has some good articles on setting up a shed, including workbenches.

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Cheers!

Post by 60766244 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:07 am

Cheers for the input, I'll try go through all the points made. I should have mentioned I do a lot more work with small wood working than with car parts so that will be the main functions of the benches.
GOD wrote:With the base mostly enclosed as in your design, you won't be able to sweep or hose out any crap from underneath, so the castors are going to get jammed as soon as you try to move them.
The bottom of the bench will be fully enclosed. By nature of the design nothing (except maybe fine Jarrah dust) will get under there. They will have rubber tread the full edges of the base to add to the sealing-non-slip qualities to a the bench. The fact the castors fully retract I think protects them more than average castors.
GOD wrote:The lower shelf that the jack pushes up against will probably have to be more substantial than the drawing indicates.

The shelf is planned to be 5mm thick solid plate that will be fully welded to all four sides of the bench. Totalling 16 welds all up, about 40-50mm long each. I had thought I was over-engineering it. :\
GOD wrote:
Enclosed sides make it difficult to get at whatever you have stored under the bench and make better spider homes than open sides.
I'll be putting doors on the front of these so they seal completely. Because of my wood-working, open shelving in a small shed space ensures more cleaning than making things. Or, suffer really filthy tooling all the time. So, walled and doored benches will be a must.
GOD wrote:
I'd reconsider the dimensions - 600mm is bare minimum depth. My main workbench is 850 deep, which gives plenty of space for the job and to scatter tools and parts around it while you work. And unless you're a real little fella, they need to be higher. My benches are 1100mm high, which is perfect working height but makes the top of the big vice a smidge too high.

My current bench width is 550 so I see this as a size upgrade really and it has done so far. Though since posting I have modified the design to have an additional 100mm projecting from the front and rear of each bench so as to allow vices to grip the edges of the benches if needed. As well as give more space with the benches now totaling 800 deep.

As for bench height - I wouldn't say short, but I'm not tall either. 5'11" :mrgreen:... But my current benches are 870 High and I always thought they were ideal. I use my vice a lot so I spend a lot of time trying to work on/over that, additionally I have various cutting/gringing/drilling tools that will be mounted on these new benches so they can't be too high.
GOD wrote:
A box frame like that will be rock solid even with only 3mm angle. Back walls don't need to be framed with that much material.

www.autospeed.com has some good articles on setting up a shed, including workbenches.

Dane.
I want the box-frame back walls to be over-engineered for a few reasons, I have an obsession for over-engineering, I want them to be free-standing so if I need to remove them and use the bench in question as just a regular all-flat bench I can. (such as cutting or working with long lengths of wood) Or if I mount them on the walls at a later date, Also, I love the way angle iron looks so I thought I would keep the theme throughout the build.

I haven't had a chance to look at the site yet but I will peruse it over the next few days and hopefully pull my ideas from that.

Cheers for the in-depth response. I want these benches to last well beyond my years in use. :)
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Post by Bantum » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:57 pm

This is what I was planning to make :

Image

Got as far as this :

Image

Before I had to move ... :(

The idea was for it to be able to be flat packed for transporting ...

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Post by 60766244 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:02 pm

Bantum wrote:This is what I was planning to make :

Image

Got as far as this :

Image

Before I had to move ... :(
Love the little model!

Unlucky on the move.

Well I'm keen for your finished product photos!
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More ...

Post by Bantum » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:09 pm

60766244 wrote: ... Love the little model! ... Unlucky on the move ...
Well I'm keen for your finished product photos ! ...
Thanks, it will have to wait now untill I get a new place ... :(

P.S. - For those observant types, I was also planning to mount the vice in picture on one end ... :)

More pictures here : Work Bench

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Post by 60766244 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:01 pm

Looks good Bantum. :)

Hopefully I'll have the steel delivered next week!
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Post by El_Freddo » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:18 pm

Interesting. I too am renting and a mate got me on to a setup that I'd be VERY happy to have - and it could be flat packed again for when the time came to move.

My plan would be to use three of the Rokan 4 tier shelves from Bunnings - or something like this, I had to do a quick google search so this might not be the one I need for the work bench height.

Anyway, 2 will be setup as they "should be" and the third only setup as two half pieces with a piece of MDF tech screwed to it as the bench. A cross brace a cross the back of it will make sure there's no movement left to right. The shelves would be on either side with a plank of wood over the work bench on the top shelf - this will allow for an over head fluro light to be installed when I can get the parts.

I'll have ample shelving, a good work space with storage under it and it'll be portable when the time comes. I'm looking forward to getting it setup - just need the funds :(

Cheers

Bennie
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Developments...

Post by 60766244 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:29 am

El_Freddo wrote:Interesting. I too am renting and a mate got me on to a setup that I'd be VERY happy to have - and it could be flat packed again for when the time came to move.

My plan would be to use three of the Rokan 4 tier shelves from Bunnings - or something like this, I had to do a quick google search so this might not be the one I need for the work bench height.

Anyway, 2 will be setup as they "should be" and the third only setup as two half pieces with a piece of MDF tech screwed to it as the bench. A cross brace a cross the back of it will make sure there's no movement left to right. The shelves would be on either side with a plank of wood over the work bench on the top shelf - this will allow for an over head fluro light to be installed when I can get the parts.

I'll have ample shelving, a good work space with storage under it and it'll be portable when the time comes. I'm looking forward to getting it setup - just need the funds :(

Cheers

Bennie
I lusted over this type of shelving when I was first setting up. Being broke, I ended up using loaaaads of filing cabinets I picked up off kerb-sides to keep somewhat organized. :rolleyes:

I still use them heaps (I must have 10 or 15 4 drawer cabinets now scattered around - even have 3 in my bedroom for all the clothes and things... :|)
Handily they've all been free. Keep out most dust, can take a lot of weight and knocking about, and 2L Milk bottles (halves for their bases to make containers) fit tight four wide by six deep so I use them to store all my nuts/bolts bits etc.
You can even tuck the bases into the tops and double stack the bottle-bottoms!

Man, I'm weird. :rolleyes:

This is an updated piccy of my plans with regard to the benches, and what's been talked of in this thread.

Image

If anything, MORE overkill. :D
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Post by T.Farm.Brumby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:32 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Interesting. I too am renting and a mate got me on to a setup that I'd be VERY happy to have - and it could be flat packed again for when the time came to move.

My plan would be to use three of the Rokan 4 tier shelves from Bunnings - or something like this, I had to do a quick google search so this might not be the one I need for the work bench height.

Anyway, 2 will be setup as they "should be" and the third only setup as two half pieces with a piece of MDF tech screwed to it as the bench. A cross brace a cross the back of it will make sure there's no movement left to right. The shelves would be on either side with a plank of wood over the work bench on the top shelf - this will allow for an over head fluro light to be installed when I can get the parts.

I'll have ample shelving, a good work space with storage under it and it'll be portable when the time comes. I'm looking forward to getting it setup - just need the funds :(

Cheers

Bennie

Made 4 or 5 of these a year or so ago with the old man. Fantastic setup, pretty easy to build too with a bit of 3mm angle and some flat panels (no idea where they came from, probably an old set of shelves haha) but I'm still unorganised :mad:
All The Rigs:

'86 RX Turbo "Thor"
'89 Brumby "Emma"
'89 Brumby "Brumbylicious"
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:50 pm

60766244 wrote:Being broke, I ended up using loaaaads of filing cabinets I picked up off kerb-sides to keep somewhat organized. :rolleyes:
Lucky bugger!

Those things are like hens teeth around here! It's the same as finding a milk create at Hotham mid season! Just doesn't happen!

TFB: I can't be bothered messing around with all of that - once you paint it etc there's quite an effort involved. Plus using paint can be a risk to the garage floor - and we rent :(

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by 60766244 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:13 am

El_Freddo wrote:Lucky bugger!

Those things are like hens teeth around here! It's the same as finding a milk create at Hotham mid season! Just doesn't happen!

TFB: I can't be bothered messing around with all of that - once you paint it etc there's quite an effort involved. Plus using paint can be a risk to the garage floor - and we rent :(

Cheers

Bennie
Really? I'd say I see about 2-3 in reasonable condition per kerbside pickup season. Crazy world. Gumtree has them running cheap too.

I've been obsessing over it more and had been thinking of a stronger(easier) way to build it. I also made an open diagram of the lift setup.

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Post by vincentvega » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:02 pm

my advice would be go to a boat yard and ask them for an appropriately sized outboard motor crate. once you remove the mounting cradle for the motor they make a perfect bench frame. You just need to add a couple of diagonals to brace them.

One of my benches was from a 140hp suzuke crate. sheet of ply on top and in the bottom for a shelf and its a great bench.
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Post by Gannon » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:15 pm

Dad has stored for me the steel crate that small Izeki/Kubota tractors are imported in. Its about 1.2m high, 1.2m deep and over 2m long all made from 3mm x 50mm x 50mm angle
Throw on a used laminex kitchen bench top and..... instant workbench.
I plan to build another with a steel top, dedicated to welding.

If you can be "in the right place at the right time" used supermarket shelving can be had for cheap, and can hold a hell of a lot of weight. Good for storing power tools and car parts.
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Post by El_Freddo » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:33 pm

60766244 wrote:I've been obsessing over it more and had been thinking of a stronger(easier) way to build it. I also made an open diagram of the lift setup.

Image
Image
On the lift setup, I've been meaning to say this earlier but keep forgetting.

You need to look at how a scissor jack works - your built in winder handle won't work as the shaft will move down as it lifts the bench up, or if the winder is mounted to the bottom with the wheels the shaft will move up as you jack the bench up - this will be a a different rate to the speed that the bench moves up. A cover flap that hides the jack would be better IMO.

Better to get these things right before you make it all pretty!

And I don't live in the right area for hard rubbish - country areas tend not to have it and in Melbs they're now cracking down on people who help themselves to hard rubbish piles :evil:

Cheers

Bennie
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Post by 60766244 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:19 am

El_Freddo wrote:On the lift setup, I've been meaning to say this earlier but keep forgetting.

You need to look at how a scissor jack works - your built in winder handle won't work as the shaft will move down as it lifts the bench up, or if the winder is mounted to the bottom with the wheels the shaft will move up as you jack the bench up - this will be a a different rate to the speed that the bench moves up. A cover flap that hides the jack would be better IMO.

Better to get these things right before you make it all pretty!

And I don't live in the right area for hard rubbish - country areas tend not to have it and in Melbs they're now cracking down on people who help themselves to hard rubbish piles :evil:

Cheers

Bennie
Cheers on that note I'd forgot to address it in the thread.
The winders for my jacks are all 21mm and identical, so I have some 21mm sockets I got from cashies for 50c a piece. They're going on and then a drill hole/screw to stop them wiggling off, and so they can be removed as needed.
Welded to the socket will be a steel ring, then a shaft with rings on each end, then on the winder wheel there will be a ring on the back of the shaft.
All this will make a crude universal joint system and allow a bit of movement in it. I'm thinking of fabricating this out of bending some thick re-bar then heating it up till it's non-magnetic then quenching it in some oil to harden it up and make it resistant to bending. (Overkill again? :D)
The winder wheel won't be mounted into a hole, behind the wheel there will be a vertical slot about 50-100mm (will need to experimenting here) So the wheel itself can move slightly up and down.
Hopefully it works well that way, right now it's all theory. :rolleyes:

I hope all that made sense :D It'd be fiddly showing the connector system through google sketch, but It could be done if need be. :P

If all else fails I'll do as you say, have a removable board and have winders hidden. I prefer permanent fixtures though...

I had someone else on another board say I should get some old car-window winder motors and make the benches electric. :p Not a bad idea, but not planned right now... plus I'd still want a mechanical manual solution in case I had no available electricity. :rolleyes:

And on the filing cabinets, If you ever roll over here I'll load your subi up with half a dozen or so. ;)
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Refinements ...

Post by Bantum » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:52 am

Hmmm ... I aggree with El_Freddo - you need to re-think how to mount the jacks ... :)

I'd measure the distance it moves when it's fully retracted & extended to see how much the 'winder' travels overall ... ;)

I'd also re-check how to mount the support frame ... I would use an EA or RHS pieces to distrubute loads direct from jack onto frame ( top & bottom ), as you might find a flat plate will buckle under load ... :p

Edit : I also note that your 'tolerance' gap will have to be good enough to allow frame to slide past but not 'bind', I would also look at putting some roller bearings or guides to hold it in place.

Might see if I can dig up an example ... :shock:

P.S. - How thick is the bench top your planning ? As I used an old Solid core door ( Approx 45 mm ) still weighs a ton though ... :cool:

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by Bantum » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:51 pm

Found these :

Image

Image

So you would need to allow for approx 200 mm vertical movment in jack ... :)

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Post by Bantum » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:56 pm

Ah, this is more what you should be aming for :

Image

More details on it here ...

You'd fix the top of lift to main frame of cabinet & put wheels on bottom frame. The box frame & Scissors lift should make it more stable + will easier to operate ... :)

Cheers, Bantum ...

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Post by 60766244 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:32 pm

Bantum wrote:Hmmm ... I aggree with El_Freddo - you need to re-think how to mount the jacks ... :)

I'd measure the distance it moves when it's fully retracted & extended to see how much the 'winder' travels overall ... ;)

I'd also re-check how to mount the support frame ... I would use an EA or RHS pieces to distrubute loads direct from jack onto frame ( top & bottom ), as you might find a flat plate will buckle under load ... :p

Edit : I also note that your 'tolerance' gap will have to be good enough to allow frame to slide past but not 'bind', I would also look at putting some roller bearings or guides to hold it in place.

Might see if I can dig up an example ... :shock:

P.S. - How thick is the bench top your planning ? As I used an old Solid core door ( Approx 45 mm ) still weighs a ton though ... :cool:

Cheers, Bantum ...
Bantum wrote:Found these :

...

...

So you would need to allow for approx 200 mm vertical movment in jack ... :)
Bantum wrote:Ah, this is more what you should be aming for :

...

More details on it here ...

You'd fix the top of lift to main frame of cabinet & put wheels on bottom frame. The box frame & Scissors lift should make it more stable + will easier to operate ... :)

Cheers, Bantum ...
The wheeled base/jack doesn't need to move anywhere near full extension. I have some rollerbearings sitting around I could use but I hadn't planned on it as yet. The movement won't need to be as much as in that photo. It's only to make the wheels contact/not contact the benches so the jacks will only need to move 100mm in height total anyways.

I'd provide some more accurate measures but atm I am in the Pilbara for work so it's all off the plans/in my head.

If the 5mm plate won't be good enough to lift the bench I will need to address the strength and brace it somehow. I'm fairly confident it won't dent or warp in though and I'm trying to keep bracing minimal. If I have to double the plate thickness (I have 10mm plate) I'd rather do that than more bracing above as I want to save the space.

The Toolmonger lift looks like a nice idea but at $500 for what I can do fairly easily for $5 doesn't really sit with me, as for the concept of it I like it, but the amount of extra engineering time to get a jack to work in that facility wouldn't be worth it in my book. If things start to look complicated, I'll simply do as suggested before and hide the mechanism under a flap.

A cool thing I did pull from this Toolmonger page is that the lift is operated by a drill. I could definitely make the mechanism designed so it could allow a drill to clamp onto that as required and make winding up/down easier without needing to dedicate more money or work into it.

As for the jacking stability and where the jack is mounted that's exactly how it will go. The whole frame will have tight tolerances and where blue meets green in that diagram I plan on greasing that steel so it won't bind, but it will guide neatly. There should be 0 wobble in the jacking process other than that I provide. ;)

You mentioned bench top and I have a few options. The drawings represent 100mm Jarrah tops with a 5mm plate underlay. Extreme overkill but I do have the wood lying about.
I also have 40mm Jarrah too so I am considering using that for the benchtop also. It will still definitely have the 5mm steel sheet underlay.
The Jarrah is all 30+ years old and nice and stable, close grained premium stuff. Some might call it a waste but I've used work benches with this as a top before and it's definitely my favourite. Considering it's free is just a bonus.
I plan on making the decision once the frames are fully welded up and I get an idea of how heavy they feel.

Also GOD linked me www.autospeed.com this site on the other page and I'd like to thank him for that. It is excellent and a good read. Lots of interesting discussion on benches and sheds and all manner of things.

Cheers,
Otter the 2004 Outback with all the fruit.
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