60mm diameter Pistons

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:31 pm

G'day Guy's,
I'm going to need 5 off of those 60mm pistons for this 5 cyl radial engine I'm making from scratch and asking google anything is like asking a politician to tell the truth it just aint gunna happen.....

So would any of you guys know of a standard car engine that use 60mm pistons as I reckon secondhand ones from the wreckers would do the job and I can then just buy new rings as they will be a standard part.

Cheers Bryan

ajcmbrown · Post by **ajcmbrown** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:46 pm

Something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-150CC-G ... 0736215617

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:55 pm

Tell us more about this engine you are making. Why 60mm pistons?

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:54 pm

Gannon wrote:Tell us more about this engine you are making. Why 60mm pistons?

+1!

Is it going to be all hand machined bores and crank? Open rockers?

60mm pistons is getting a bit bigger than most model airplane powerplants, is it going to be powering anything?

Home made engines (or the people who make them) are quite rare these days

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:19 pm

Gannon wrote:Tell us more about this engine you are making. Why 60mm pistons?

Ok for a bit of fun I decided I wanted to make an engine and I do have a full machineshop here on the farm that is off the grid, so when the batteries are fully charged I can machine all day and have some fun.

I did do a heap of research and didn't find any radials that were designed from scratch so decided eh why not give the gray matter a workout and make one myself from scratch.

I found a 280mm steel billet in the scrap bin at work and thought well that will do for the crankcase. So took it home and set it up on my big lathe and roughed out the bore then onto the bridgeport to mill the 5 flats using my rotary table.

For the cylinder liners I got some seamless pipe and 60mm just cleans up nicely for the bore leaving a 6mm wall thickness.

I already had another steel billet for the front cover which also supports the bearing setup which is 2 off tapered bearings. I have a nice length of 1-1/2" 4140 for the output shaft too and arranged the bearing setup where the front seal cover will provide the required preload for the bearings so no locknut is needed.

Where I'm at at the moment is machining the cylinder liners to 59.97mm with a fine feed which gives a good surface finish and I will hone the bores out to 60mm. I do still need to get a hone too. Last sitting I put the front cover on the mill and drilled all the holes, now the front cover is a neat sliding fit onto the crankcase so no dowels are needed.

It would be nice to find some cheap pistons as once the liners are done and the crankcase finished machined I can make a start designing the spider bearing.

Now as far as capacity using R² x Pi x L = volume

9 x 3.14 x 7 x 5 = 989.1 cc

Once the unit is at a stage where I can run it I'm making a crude head and first trial will be a compressor then I can then make a start on the radial cam and for the heads I'm making a pattern and I'll get them cast along with another pattern for the cylinder liners with plenty of ribbing to assist in cooling.

To date no drawings apart from scribbles on paper and like I said this project is a good way to keep the grey matter in check and the best part it's all fun.

Cheers Bryan

P.S. when I get time I'll take some pic's and put them in this thread.

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:24 pm

Silverbullet wrote:+1!

Is it going to be all hand machined bores and crank? Open rockers? 60mm pistons is getting a bit bigger than most model airplane powerplants, is it going to be powering anything?

Home made engines (or the people who make them) are quite rare these days;)

Ok one has to learn to crawl before walking thats where the compressor stage will be.

Designing the radial cam and the lifters etc will be the walking stage and once that is achieved

The run stage will making this into a 2 stroke diesel and getting to run reliably.

The flying stage will be ripping that old L series apart and making a 4wd drive tipper buggy for the farm.

But eh one has to learn to crawl first........

P.S. found this pic of the milling the flats on the crankcase

[ATTACH]4268[/ATTACH]

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:01 pm

Impressive! And an off grid machine shop is my idea of heaven

Be sure to keep us updated

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:24 pm

Ok as I can see this becoming a blog I'll describe how I power my machineshop.

about 8 years ago I scored 24 off 2 volt 275AH ex telsux batteries 3 years old for a couple of slabs of beer. I then bought a 3kw pure sinewave inverter out of Taiwan and got stung with customs so wasn't happy with that.

Now I changed all the motors on my machines to 3 phase, wired them in Delta and used VFD's to control the motors. I programmed the VFD's to run to 100Hz so double the speed and programmed some other parameters to fool the 2hp motors into thinking they are 3hp motors. The VFD's are 240 volt input 3 phase output so basically I go from 24 volts DC to 240 volts AC then into variable 3 phase to run each motor.

On each machine is an external power control box with toggle switchs for forward/reverse, ramp or sudden stop and a 5K pot for speed control.

I've got a german toolroom lathe, old 4' flat belt lathe, the bridgeport mill all setup and going and got an old surface grinder with motor and VFD all waiting to come to life.

I got the VFD's cheap and some free but retail they aint cheap (the missus would chuck a hissy fit if one brought home and mentioned the price).

Now the best part under load I don't see more than 8 amps draw so it is very kind on the batteries so I be machining all day until the missus sends up one of the girls to tell me to get my butt back to the house and get my chores done.....

MuZ · Post by **MuZ** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:48 pm

Impressive setup, I'm super keen to read more about this project. me being a machinist you've got me really excited as its one of those things I've always wanted to try but never have had the time and resources at the same moment. If you can put a heap of pics up that would be awesome!

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:49 pm

4.2 diesel patrol would be getting close to 60mm?

ajcmbrown · Post by **ajcmbrown** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:45 am

The Patrol pistons might be a little large, td42 Patrol is engine 96mm bore. OP is aiming for total engine capacity of just under a litre (981cc) made up of five cylinders, five of those big suckers would make a 3.5 litre engine.

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:47 pm

G'day Guy's,
Well had some time this arvo to go ask around and first stop was the wrecker only to be told they won't strip a motor for pistons. Next I went looking for a engine recon mob and instead found a spare parts place so went there and asked. The guy got on the phone and the best he could find was 62mm and they come out of a Suzuki 800cc engine.

O'well as I'm making everything else looks like now I'll be making my own custom pistons which I did intend to from the start but the idea of finding some in an existing motor was a offer too good to resist.

As the conrod's take a beating I'll be going around to my mates place and forging some bar up so the rod's will withstand the punishment they will get.

Looks like i'll finish that bathroom I'm working around lunchtime saturday so sunday will be a day for play up at my shed and hopefully get all the cylinder liners machined up so I can start boring into the crankcase to fit the liners.

Cheers Bryan

P.S. As I'm not looking for the pistons anymore could the Mod's change this thread to '5 cyl Radial Engine Project' please

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:12 pm

I for one, hope you can take and post pics as good as your machine skills are - I wanna see what you are up to !

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:31 pm

Allo Guy's,
The father in law rang and I finally got to have a quick chat and asked him about the pistons and his answer well I reckon I got atleast 4 of them downstairs and should be able to find another one. The F I L is a real Honda buff so these pistons would be coming from the S600 and S800 vintage sports cars. So here's hoping they are 60mm and it will save a heap of work.

I will take some pic's this weekend and I still have the front cover in the mill as I'll be tapping the holes in the mill to ensure they are purfectly square. Next jobs after the liners and front cover is done is to setup the angle table I have so it can form a jig for holding the crankcase to bore the holes and seats for the liners. Now to hold the liners snug to the crankcase I will be machining a groove into the liners then counterboring a recess in the crankcase, then 2 split plates will fit into the liner groove and with say a 0.010-0.012" rise on the liner groove the plates will hold each liner in firm and removal will be an easy job.

Once all the liner are fitted to the crankcase it will be time to make the main shaft then decide the way to go for the spider bearing.

I did get a huge lecture of the F I L too saying you have all that machinery so why aint you making money making things and I couldn't get it thru that with my work I'm lucky to have 4 hours a weekend to work in the shed. Also with it being off the grid if the batteries aren't charged then no machining gets done so I just play on my homemade cnc instead.

Cheers Bryan

ajcmbrown · Post by **ajcmbrown** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:45 pm

In among this lot are 60mm pistond kits for 19.99 each plus 7.99 postage, who knows, maybe you can combine shipping and have a full set for $120? Are these suitable?
It appears as though all 150cc pit bikes have 60mm pistons, cheap and plentiful.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Piston-Rings ... 27d293e095

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:02 pm

ajcmbrown wrote:In among this lot are 60mm pistond kits for 19.99 each plus 7.99 postage, who knows, maybe you can combine shipping and have a full set for $120? Are these suitable?
It appears as though all 150cc pit bikes have 60mm pistons, cheap and plentiful.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Piston-Rings ... 27d293e095

I clicked on the type of piston namely the 150/160YX and the price came up at $39.99 each + postage. I did see that same seller does sell 60 ring set for $17.50 too and also noted Stihl chainsaws also use 60mm ones so I'll call in to the Mt Barker shop and ask them.

I'll wait and see what the father in law has first and that above price I'd be better off buying a length of say 70mm Diameter cast iron bar and machining my own up.

ajcmbrown · Post by **ajcmbrown** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:12 pm

Sorry about that, I didn't realise that you could specify the size.

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:48 pm

No worries mate and sorry I forgot to thank you for looking for me too.

Thinking on $200 + postage for the set of 5 isn't that much and I do like the look of the piston as they have a low profile which is what I planned so I can get more stroke. My next bathroom starting next week is worth over 2K so after that I may just have to buy them if the father in law can't find a 5th one. It will take the big headache away from machining my own and there does look to be enough meat ontop of the piston as I will need to machine the top to suit as a small valley for the ignition point on a diesel would be the best way to go.

Cheers Bryan

ajcmbrown · Post by **ajcmbrown** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:51 pm

Is this engine a diesel?

Bryan1 · Post by **Bryan1** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:52 am

ajcmbrown wrote:Is this engine a diesel?

Hi AJ,
First I need to learn to crawl with this project so it will be setup as a driven air compressor to prove what I've made can handle the rpm etc without failure. Then I'll make a radial cam so it can run off compressed air and get the timing and everything sorted that will learning to walk.

Once all that is achieved the engine will be stripped and made into a 2 stroke diesel. That will be learning to run.

Cheers Bryan