Wanted XT Vortex Intermittent Wiper Unit

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:32 pm

I'm looking for an Intermittent Wiper Unit for a 1988 XT / vortex mine is intermittently working

The part number is 86571GA300 and if for the 1986 to1991 model

it looks like this

Does anyone have this part for the XT and would the be willing to part with it.

TOONGA

Post by **TOONGA** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:01 pm

I'm still looking for this part

TOONGA

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:48 pm

I've written down the part number of Ruby Scoo's unit - do you think I can find it now??

I'm at m&d's at the moment so I'll endeavour to check out the parts bombs to see if one's got the same, but looking at that I reckon your chances are slim to none

Cheers

Bennie

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:04 am

Thanks Bennie I have this want ad up on USMB as well but no luck so far

I would say as long as it has 17 pins it would work ... don't suppose there was an SVX there

TOONGA

Post by **Bantum** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:46 pm

Might be a case of the 'Dry Joints' - If not internal relays maybe sicking ... :/

If you can, I'd take it apart & resolder all the joints etc. that should fix it.

Tip : The case should come of that by prying it loose, be sure to take some pics of what you find & post up here ...

Cheer, Bantum ...

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:05 pm

Bantum wrote:Might be a case of the 'Dry Joints' - If not internal relays maybe sicking ... :/

If you can, I'd take it apart & resolder all the joints etc. that should fix it.

Tip : The case should come of that by prying it loose, be sure to take some pics of what you find & post up here ...

Cheer, Bantum ...

As per my vortex thread it isn't a dry solder joint.
It is one of the relays It fails on very cold mornings or when ever it wants to.
I looked over both sides with a jewellers loupe and the only problem I found was the cracked case .

this is the component side of the board

and this is the back of the board

Even if anyone has one of those relays lying around I would love to hear from you.

TOONGA

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:03 am

Jules,

These are the units I've got. I'll pull one apart today to see if it's got one of those relays in it:

Ruby Scoo's - 88 DL wagon:

89 DL wagon:

91 DL wagon:

Essentially all the same unit, just in different colours! From memory Ruby Scoo's one is blue...

I'll gut one today and see if I can find one of those little relays you require

Cheers

Bennie

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:14 am

and all 8 pin

thanks for looking Bennie and have fun pulling the plastic apart

TOONGA

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:19 pm

They're 6 pin, different relay numbers too

Cheers

Bennie

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:23 pm

You will be able to repair the unit by finding an electrically equivalent relay then doing some creative wiring to attach it to the board.

Can you find specs on the OEM Relay that has failed?

If you can't i can help you work them out.

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:09 pm

vincentvega wrote:You will be able to repair the unit by finding an electrically equivalent relay then doing some creative wiring to attach it to the board.

Can you find specs on the OEM Relay that has failed?

If you can't i can help you work them out.

the relay is made by NEC Japan after the logo is a lower case "g" the other two have and "e" and a "c"

the part number is MR301-N20 and 7F4 all have the same part number. I would suspect the 20 stands for 20 amp (but that is a guess) all 3 relays are 5 pin.

Any help you can offer is appreciated

TOONGA

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:34 pm

had a quick look at this.

see page 8 of:
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datashe ... -B3N3S.pdf

unfortunately doesnt tell you much. N20 is a customisation code so could mean anything.

Unless you can find a datasheet that explains what the N20 means you are going to have to figure it all out.

I would take the relay off the board. First thing to try would be to pry / cut the cover off the relay and see why it has failed. Look for bent / burnt / broken contacts, broken wires etc. measure the resistance of the coil and compare against the working ones.

If you do have to replace the relay i can give you a hand working out the parameters you need but not right now. Do the above first

relays are very simple mechanically it will be very obvious how it works when you open it up.

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:36 pm

actually before you do that.. have you verified the relay is being driven? Is there the same voltage across its coil as the other relays when it switches? The crack in the cover doesnt prove the relay is faulty. It could be the drive circuitry. swapping 2 relays would prove this pretty quickly.

Post by **Bantum** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:47 pm

Yep, I concur with Vincent - if the relay is gone, swap it out for something similar ( doesn't need to be exactly them same ) - as long as the new one is roughly within the 'envelope' of your old one, it should do the same job ...

Would still go over the board for any 'Dry Joints', cracks etc. & make sure nothing else is broken - use a multimeter to test components too ... !

Have you got Vortex Wiring Diagrams ? That should at least give you some indication of voltage ratings etc. - Just a matter of matching them.

Cheers, Bantum ...

Post by **TOONGA** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:24 pm

I truely don't believe in re-soldering near 30 year old components unless they are in need of replacing.

I say this as I have over the years repaired Fender, Marshall, Orange and one Peavey 5150 amplifier (the newest of them all) countless guitars and speaker boxes. As well motherboards and hard drives and some Tvs as well.

Don't solder or resolder unless you must.

The only thing wrong with this module is a relay that is faulty.

I'm not prepared to put heat and radiated current near old components (unless absolutely necessary) as that's the best way to cook them.

TOONGA

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:25 am

If you want to repair this thing you need to solder. There is no avoiding it.

At the moment you are assuming the relay is faulty. My suggestion is that it could be the relay, or it could be the circuitry driving the relay. I would check that the relay is being driven correctly by comparing against the other relays that are working properly.

you need to do this anyway so you know what the drive voltage across the relay coils is.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:34 pm

If you're really desperate for a wiper fix and can't find anything OEM that will work, I know for a fact the DIY intermittent function I made for my wagon works and parks the wipers (schematic below) It requires 4 x mini/micro relays and 1 x intermittent timer circuit from Jaycar or similar. But you'd have to find the 4 wires from the wiper motor in your loom and start from scratch using the stock switch to operate the relays. Only thing it doesn't do is operate the wipers for x number of strokes after the washer bottle is operated.

wagonist · Post by **wagonist** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:43 pm

Have you contacted Subareck in Adelaide? He's got all kinds of older subies around. I saw a few vortexes in the yard when I was there last December.

BTW, in El Freddo's post showing the 6 pins on the L series control unit, the extra 2 pins are for variable timing. I've got an 8 pin one I bought from the states, and the GTII wagon I just bought has variable intermittent wipers. It's just a pot across those 2 terminals.

Post by **TOONGA** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:53 pm

Wagonist Ive not contacted Subawreck or any other wrecker as I'e not had the time.

I have found out that the MR301 series relay I need to replace, if I want to go down that road, is a 10 amp twin pole relay like this one on ebay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391245632184 ... EBIDX%3AIT

So I'm thinking for a whole couple of bucks, I can either fix the problem or in the end need a new module.

SB I have 17 wires in the connector I would need to wade through. as well the module is tied to the speed sensor the faster the car goes the more the wiper wipes. I never noticed until I read it on USMB.

Vincent I know I will need to solder but I'm not going over every solder join as bantum suggested.

I know what to look for with dry solder joints and none of the joints were dry.

TOONGA

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:17 pm

TOONGA wrote:
SB I have 17 wires in the connector I would need to wade through. as well the module is tied to the speed sensor the faster the car goes the more the wiper wipes. I never noticed until I read it on USMB.

TOONGA

Ah yes, why make it simple

Okay then, where is the blue box module in your first post located under the dash? I'll be going to a self serve wrecker in the near future and there should still be a Vortex there, I could have a look for you if you like. But, the stock list on their website says it is a 1985 model.

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