ride height for newbies? fitting larger wheels

[Matatak]

good job with the pics and marking the nut was brilliant. i think ill do mine aswell for sure now. and can i ask how much u payed/are paying for the rims n tyres? pm me if u dont want to say on here or dw bout it if u dont wanna say at all
im interested in some new ones for my subi but dont wanna pay heaps

[daza]

Just realized i didn't get any before shots of the front...

Oh well,
Here's the rears,
Bit bigger than yours hay!

about 7mm clearance is not rubbing, fronts are though
Pics!!!!
Daza.

[cooloothin]

jeez daza, bit of a guard chop job required there how come they sit so far forward ? is that from the lift kit? with no lift my rears are still sitting almost dead centre.

Matatak, I'm not sure if i'd bother if i didn't have the larger tyres.. I've never run out of guard room running 13" 175/75s, and the added height looks a little odd with just the 13s. But if you are going to go bigger, note that 90brumby just said it looked like i'd gone about half way.. i reckon i've gone at least 2/3rds but either way you can go higher than the pics.

RE: Price, There's no secrets on the forums if you search long enough... ie if you see something for sale in the Private Sellers section, it is a wise thing to do a quick search to see if that item has a history. Check for the seller's id coming up in previous purchase threads, a lot of items on here get passed from person to person to person. (and if they're something sturdy like a bullbar, will hold their price, while tyres get used and should probably drop a bit)

the usual wheels are here, and they have a list of dealers here. I just gave the local Beaurepairs a call. He knew what i was talking about and said he could get some in, but never called me back. I might still chase him up because I don't have a spare. i was quoted 90 new, but that was ordered in to Gero from who-knows-where.

tyres - bob jane is doing 80 bucks at the moment for 185/70 14s. Others will be pretty similar.

so for a set of 4 you're looking at 680 retail. with a spare that's 850.

600 for this post was a little while back, sounds near new.

250 for this one with a lot less tread

400 for the ones i got from waggaclint - good price for nearly new rubber.

If I thought they just wouldn't work for me, the plan was to just re-advertise them for 400 again. I'd take the hit of having to drive them back to perth (in the boot).

as a side note i just scanned through all the recent 13" posts as well and they range from 150 to 300, again depending on the rubber mainly. (though i think i'll be holding onto my 13's for a while.. )

[Matatak]

i was thinkin more along the lines of 205/75s on 14s (as alex has lol thanx alex)
and those desert rats on the speedy site are basically the same as wt other ppl call sunraysias im guessing..look the same to me
i just got told bob jane sold them but if they sell them in wangara down the street form where i work i might visit them first as they're obviously closer.

[daza]

jeez daza, bit of a guard chop job required there how come they sit so far forward ?

The rear is suspension lift, cranked up the torsion bars, as the wheel droops it swings forward. On the ground it evens up a bit.


Tested!

Daza

[SUBYDAZZ]

Multi-quote madness v2.0

...
Never attempt a U turn in low 4wd. The binding apparently will break something in the gearbox, think it might be the low range gear itself. I've never broken anything yet i've never done a U turn in low 4wd on some good advice of one of the board members ages ago. Always do at least a 3 point turn. Try it out and you'll feel the binding...

The best advice for these models is to disengage 4WD before you try any tight turns if possible. If the conditions are slippery then it will probably be OK, but if you are on surfaces like ashphalt or concrete or other high-friction surfaces which don't allow wheels to slip easily try to do it in 2WD. This includes tight turns like hairpins as well as 3-point turns or U-turns

http://www.geocities.com/subarushrine/turning.html

...With the issue of the different diametre front tyres, your not going to break anything with this. The diff may be working a little more in a straight line. You'll really notice the binding when in 4wd wether they're on the front or the rear. Even with 4 tyres of the same diametre you'll still feel binding but running 3 same and 1 different will help bind the 4wd system.

Cheers

Really suggest different diameter tyres on any 4WD is a bad idea, you can get it stuck in 4WD (happened to me once) and it can be very difficult to get out. Car doesn't seem to like it. Also your alignment / thrust-line / braking may be affected. Suggest only use 2WD if you need to have different diameter tyres (emergencies etc.) and put the odd one (or 2) on the rear.

Not sure how 1 a different diameter will help with binding, I would think i'd make things worse, please explain.

I've always been aware that Subys could have their ride height adjusted by some bolts, but had never investigated it. I had a reasonable flick through the forums - the only info was more related to bigger tyres (26" +) and usually involved cars with 2"+ lift installed. Most people just suggested new suspension (usually kybs/kings).

The Gregory's manual provides information about the adjustment bolts for the front and rear, but to be honest they make it sound more like brain surgery than just carefully measuring and turning these bolts. Apparently i have the potential to wreak havoc on my wheel alignments, and I don't know much about camber/caster/toe in-out etc etc.

I've found the bits it points out on my car, as in pics here

So.. what do i do with them CAN i do anything with them? (in my position as a suspension-knowledge-poor person i mean) Does turning the rear nut clockwise make things go up or down? Obviously i'd mark with a nikko exactly where I was before i turn anything.

I presume I could get the height i'm after, though I guess that depends on exactly where they're sitting at the moment. The manual suggests EA81 ride height has 20mm of adjustment in the rear and 30mm of adjustment in the front. I've checked the current ride height:
rear - 335mm (spec 335 - 355)
front - about 262mm (spec 250 - 280)

Can I adjust these nuts to get the height I'm after and then take the car to an alignment place to get them to fix the rest, given the new height? Will an alignment place know what to do? I took the car to beaurepairs recently and asked for an all round alignment and balance, and when i picked the car up the receipt said 'electronic balance x 2, passenger side nudge x 1' .. all that says to a layman like me is that he didn't do what I asked for. I would have asked him to explain about the process if he'd been nice, but he was a gruff bloke and I decided i'd take my business elsewhere next time and try asking the next mob....

Dave

Just remember that raising (or lowering) these are a form of suspension lift, not a body lift. They will change the geometry of your CVs. While the adjustment is not far from memory (25mm maybe?) it will have an effect - can be the straw that breaks the camels back if your CVs are nearly buggered. Subaru suggest returning these to normal height when not requiring extra clearance.

There would be people that have had them raised for long periods of time / permanently so let hear from them, it may well be OK long term (like Subaru say never use the part-time 4WD on the roads - I did it for thousands of km in total on my old L-Series' and the only thing I broke was a tailshaft uni - non repairable type! Well I had accelerated tyre wear too.)

Just thought I'd add this stuff.

[cooloothin]

Hey SUBYDAZZ,

Not sure how 1 a different diameter will help with binding, I would think i'd make things worse, please explain.

El_Freddo meant that it would literally help with binding.. ie.. create more binding, and thus make things worse, just like you suspected.

suspension lift, not a body lift

understood that it will do other funky things like mess with CVs.. but it also does raise and lower the guard with respect to the wheel, which was what i was after. Though of course, in my case the raise didn't achieve the result I wanted. That's life.

As you suggest, I may very well return them to their old position if I think I'll still have sufficient clearance after I bash the guards.

Re: turns, as mentioned on the 4wd lever thread, i avoid putting the old girl in 4x4 if at all possible, so you can rest assured she's never been in 4x4 on any surface more solid than a fire trail in the 8 years i've had her



On a side note, maybe i'm too attached. The thought of bashing away at my suby makes me want to just on-sell the wheels to Matatak and be done with it

[Matatak]

On a side note, maybe i'm too attached. The thought of bashing away at my suby makes me want to just on-sell the wheels to Matatak and be done with it

lol really..

nah jus give her a bash shell still be right and hopefully wont need much of it

[El_Freddo]

you could run lower profile tyres on those larger rims and that will bring them back to factory tyre diametre (won't be any good for offroading with low tyre pressures). The other way to do it would be to get a lift kit, (body and suspension kit - a standard one for subi's) this will raise the body off the drivetrain and keep the CV joints on the same angle they're on now...

about the 4wd system binding, having on tyre a different diametre will bind the system quicker than if 4 of the same diametre are run.

If you're not happy about guard chopping or smaking, go and get a second set of guards to try on first to see if its what you want or to get it right before "modding" your original guards.

Just a thought

[cooloothin]

re: lower profile tyres:

yes i have considered just buying lower profile tyres but that defeats the cheap price i got these wheel/tyres for

re: lift kit .. well the whole point of this thread was to see what i could achieve without one If i'm having trouble thinking about bashing a strip of guard, and I go white at the thought of the huge (bargain) amount of money i forked out for the wheels.. i'm hardly the type of person who is going to seriously mod their car in a hurry Or I would have done so years back.

Thanks for the idea about the second set of guards, didn't think of that.

Anyhoo, on a progress note, I went over to a mate's place last night and borrowed his mini-sledge.. went at it and it looks like i've gained at least 10mm if not twice that. Pouring rain here today so I'll have her in the garage shortly for a proper fit out, along with probably a few touch ups with hammer, metal file and some rust guard paint.

Photos soon for matatak

[Matatak]

well i got round to tweaking my own suspension and id say i only gained 15mm of clearance above the tyres (between body and top of tyre)
i didnt really do it to gain nething at the moment but when i get some new rims n tyres it may help me but owell..

now to finish off my gear lever

[cooloothin]

In case anybody else was curious

a quick bit of back-to-basics maths and some php yielded

http://20knots.net/tyres/tyrecalc.php

measured the circs just with dots of chalk and rolling them along the garage floor (thanks to a practical engineer friend for this... i was gonna figure it out on paper .. doh.. too bloody theoretical by half)

[cooloothin]

Well, I'm converted.

Just went for the first drive in my new big shiny shoes and i don't know if it was my imagination after this process dragging out for weeks, but it seemed so much smoother it was almost a different car.

And, as noted elsewhere, having 4 wheels exactly the same size and wear level tidied up 4x4 as well, returning it to the ease I had thought was but a memory.

Matatak - for the minor effort it ended up being to squash the sticky-out bits flat, i'd say the 14's are well worth it even just for the I'm a tough suby look

[Matatak]

Matatak - for the minor effort it ended up being to squash the sticky-out bits flat, i'd say the 14's are well worth it even just for the I'm a tough suby look

yer im goin down this week hopefully to try n pik some up. dunno bout tyres yet though still undecided was thinkin bout 205/70s as if i go like urs theyre basically the saem as wt i got now only a 1 inch bigger rim so theyre wont be enough gain imo for the like 800 id end up forkin out

[cooloothin]

as long as you're aware you'll have to trim much more than me, as you'll gain about 40 something mm in height, so 20mm either side when the wheels are straight, and the problem is when they're turned to half-lock..

hope it works out for ya though... i still need to get another as this set (and pretty much every set of 14's i've seen for sale - what's with that?) only has 4 wheels. So at the moment my 'spare' solution is to take 2 x 13" with me wherever i go.

[Matatak]

so when on half lock the backs would be the problems??
on the front i dont no if mine are missing something lol but theres teh outer gaurd that has a bar keeping it align with the body so that would have to move forward ill guess.

are u gonna get me some pics

[cooloothin]

everything below is keeping in mind it works for my chosen tyre size, but a quick bit of math says that your chosen tyre size is only another 5mm either side compared to mine so may well work the same way

no, the backs aren't a problem - they stay straight.

The guards aren't the problem - i have 45mm between the guards on the front, both in-front and behind the tyre.

The problem is below - far easier to explain than any photo. It is the driver's side front tyre, top-down view. The dimensions of the image are near enough to exact.


Colour key:
The brown bit is your wheel well.
The pink bits are the guard coming into the well from the edges of the car
The grey bit at the front (right side of pic) is that strap of support metal you mentioned. On my car it's gone (this was the tyre-slashing incident i described earlier in the thread).
The green bit is pressed-steel plate of the inner wheel-well and the outer wheel-well. The down-pointing green bit is the bolt-bracket for the bolt that holds on the plastic liner. You won't see this stuff until you've removed the liner.
Solid black is obviously the tyre when straight.
Dashed black indicates tyre at half-lock and full-lock.

At full-lock you can see it's well clear of hitting anything.

but at half-lock my tyres were coming about 2mm (thickness of a $2 coin) from the green bracket and bolt.

So - the bolt is gone completely - gives me another 4mm or so.

The blue is where the pressed-plate and the bracket ended up after i bashed it. I was careful to not destroy the bracket, which I now use as a cable-tie hole to keep the plastic liner in place (instead of the bolt).

As you can see this result gives me about 20mm of gap - something I feel quite safe about, even going over bumpy terrain, because you'd be doing that rather slowly anyway.

All in all, it ended up rather tidy. Hope that helps.