There is actually a very good reason why L Series cars sit higher in the bum .
They are designed that way so that the spring rate is not high enough to give unacceptable ride qualities and compress when you put any sort of load in the boot or wagon cargo area .
Remember how I keep saying that all but particularly early Subaru's have short suspension links ? Well L's in the rear are real short in the rear "A" arms and that puts their strut mounting point not too far away from the rear cross members locating points . The result of this is that the lever ratios dictate that the spring rate has to be reasonably soft/supple to stop these cars riding like a billy cart .
According to my 87 factory work shop manuals and same ones Ive seen for the 85/86 L series cars the wagons have the highest rated rear springs logically because they are heavier in the back . Next are the 3 door coups and then the RX's and lastly the FrWD sedans .
The rear spring rates are wagon 196 in/lb , all 3 door coupe 179 in/lb , all 87+ sedan inc RX Turbo 160 in/lb . I noted that the 85/86 RX Turbo sedans got the same 179 in/lb rear springs as the 3 door coupe . Also the RX Turbo sedans and Coupes had greater compression damping x 2 than the other versions ie 221 vs 110 pounds at 1 foot sec velocity .
The right way to have that car ride level is to use higher rate rear springs and fit a divider and tender spring to ensure the springs don't "fall out" if they become completely lose at full suspension droop .
The other thing is that std rear dampers probably may not cope too well with those heavier wheels and tyres and this is something you'll have to try for yourself . There is a very limited range of rear dampers for L's and anything half serious costs more money than most would spend anyway .
This is not intended to come across as condescending so don't take it that way .
Often young people cannot resist the temptation to fit large diameter wheels and tyres and while to them it looks good it is often a long step backwards . Large diameter rims dont achieve a real lot unless you intend to fit really big brakes inside them , its one the main reasons why competition cars run them . A long time ago someone worked out that in a lightish car 60 profile tyres gave the best compromise of tyre wall control ride and cost . It is subjective because wide rubber ie 235+ can run lower aspect ratios and not be unacceptably low in the sidewall . When sidewalls are they give a very uncompromising ride and tend to tram line because they don't allow enough "give" between the tyres contact patch and the rim itself .
So what the big rim small tyre combination mostly gives is more unsprung mass which std dampers often don't control too well/reduced ride comfort from the tyres not being compliant enough/handling issues mentioned above . Have a look at rally converted Group A RX Turbos and note you won't find 15+ inch wheels and 45/50 series tyres if the team could get the works 14" wheels and good rubber to suit .
If you have gen 1 Lib brakes and get the opportunity try a set of GX wheels and std tyres and note the difference in the way it rides and handles .
Also note that unless you go to expensive levels to get L Series suspension geometry right the handling will never be brilliant . The issue is caster more than camber because more positive caster gives dynamic camber change as the steering angle is increased . The easiest way to get more caster is to space the front control arms forward on their compression struts (AKA caster or radius rods) which works but eventually the angularity kills the inner arm bushes . The arms need to be cut and welded at a different angle to get around this . You can also buy and fit I think Forrester Noltec adjustable strut tops with the urethane cushioning but you don't get the same range of adjustment in an L as a Forrester - but when you are desperate for every last degree it all helps .
L's must run larger diameter anti roll bars , mine are 24 and 22mm and if I had my time again both would be 24mm . You need to weld mounts on the rear arms to mount a rear bar or use RX Turbo ones which don't unfortunately have the bump stop platforms but they can be welded on the RX arms anyway .
It costs good money to make a L Series handle well , you have to change everything the factory did poorly .
Enough for now , cheers A .
Spring /stance question L series?
Thanks for the info!
I am not a "boy racer" but driving along with the standard height rear springs and impreza struts and springs in the front, made the car feel very tippy and nervous in the back end!
The 1" lowered springs in the rear do make the rear end stiffer, but a lot, lot less nervous. They are still captured within the suspension setup as well.
I was not trying to build a street car out of the subaru, after 6 subies of various forms, I know how well they don't handle on the street, my old Group A rallye GT4 celica and my VK Group A commodore taught me enough about how good and bad cars handle on the street! Awd and rwd both can be fun and scary depending on the circumstances!
The crossbred kit allowed me to fit much needed brakes to my car as std brakes fade pretty quick! The wrx rims were a nice bonus looks wise!
It's an enjoyable car for what I do in it, drive to work, drive on gravel roads to get to mtb riding areas, has enough room to throw the kids surfboards in and go to the beach, with the upgraded brakes and engine/gearbox the car has become more usable for what i do with it. I would love a 2010 forrester turbo, but the $5000 i've spent compared to shelling out $30k+ is not an option for me.
I understand what you are saying about the suspension, but this is my compromise to suit my needs.
Cheers,
Deano
I am not a "boy racer" but driving along with the standard height rear springs and impreza struts and springs in the front, made the car feel very tippy and nervous in the back end!
The 1" lowered springs in the rear do make the rear end stiffer, but a lot, lot less nervous. They are still captured within the suspension setup as well.
I was not trying to build a street car out of the subaru, after 6 subies of various forms, I know how well they don't handle on the street, my old Group A rallye GT4 celica and my VK Group A commodore taught me enough about how good and bad cars handle on the street! Awd and rwd both can be fun and scary depending on the circumstances!
The crossbred kit allowed me to fit much needed brakes to my car as std brakes fade pretty quick! The wrx rims were a nice bonus looks wise!
It's an enjoyable car for what I do in it, drive to work, drive on gravel roads to get to mtb riding areas, has enough room to throw the kids surfboards in and go to the beach, with the upgraded brakes and engine/gearbox the car has become more usable for what i do with it. I would love a 2010 forrester turbo, but the $5000 i've spent compared to shelling out $30k+ is not an option for me.
I understand what you are saying about the suspension, but this is my compromise to suit my needs.
Cheers,
Deano
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discopotato03
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2134
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:29 am
- Location: Sydney
And as long as it pleases you that's the overall aim .
The "nervous" feel you got would have been from rear body roll more than the perceived higher center of gravity . My old 86 RX L Series sedan has quite big gaps between its std 185 70 13 tyres and its rear arches particularly when its half full of fuel or less . It has very little roll because of the higher rate springs (196 in lb vs 157) and the rear anti roll bar 22mm vs the std 16mm . The height doesn't worry it or feel nervous at all and much as though I'd like it to be closer to even its only a visual thing . What it does do when given a bootfull is stand up on the front like a bloody preying mantis because most Subarus have their anti climb/dive settings biased towards soft comfortable front springs . Higher rate springs naturally resist the dive under brakes and you can alter the compression struts (radius rods) height on the control arms to counter the rise under power but I can't e bothered spending more money to do this with an old car . Easier to buy that which preys on Imprezas and drive that ...
Where the springs and bar paid off is that it stops the body roll and therefore suspension geometry change which is a known problem for most of the Subaru range .
I'm not kidding when I say those that take Imprezas production car racing have to virtually lock the suspension up because the geometry change from any significant body roll is always for the worse . The open mind that organised to make my custom larger anti roll bars said he'd never seen a Subaru yet that didn't need 24mm bars back and front to make it handle ok on tarmac .
To each their own , A .
The "nervous" feel you got would have been from rear body roll more than the perceived higher center of gravity . My old 86 RX L Series sedan has quite big gaps between its std 185 70 13 tyres and its rear arches particularly when its half full of fuel or less . It has very little roll because of the higher rate springs (196 in lb vs 157) and the rear anti roll bar 22mm vs the std 16mm . The height doesn't worry it or feel nervous at all and much as though I'd like it to be closer to even its only a visual thing . What it does do when given a bootfull is stand up on the front like a bloody preying mantis because most Subarus have their anti climb/dive settings biased towards soft comfortable front springs . Higher rate springs naturally resist the dive under brakes and you can alter the compression struts (radius rods) height on the control arms to counter the rise under power but I can't e bothered spending more money to do this with an old car . Easier to buy that which preys on Imprezas and drive that ...
Where the springs and bar paid off is that it stops the body roll and therefore suspension geometry change which is a known problem for most of the Subaru range .
I'm not kidding when I say those that take Imprezas production car racing have to virtually lock the suspension up because the geometry change from any significant body roll is always for the worse . The open mind that organised to make my custom larger anti roll bars said he'd never seen a Subaru yet that didn't need 24mm bars back and front to make it handle ok on tarmac .
To each their own , A .