Lifted o4 outback project

[baitman]

Hi all so heres the plan.
1. 2" BYB lift kit
2. Rasied king springs
3. 215/70/r16 cooper discoverer atrs
4. VDO electronic speedo correction box

Standard the tyre size is 215/60/r16 which is 664mm overall diameter and the tyres i want to fit are 215/70/r16. which are 708mm overall diameter which
means they are 44mm larger than standard in queensland you are only allowed a 15mm increase in tyre size so does any one know if there are any engineers out there that will sign off on the bigger tyre size and provide a mod plate.
i want everything to be legal i have spoken to my insurance and they say
the lift is fine because its only 50mm, but the increase in tyre size will require an engineers cert. Anyone with any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[Barry1956]

Hello Baitman,
You may have a bit of trouble getting a kit from Dave at BYB at the moment, as his mum is pretty crook. (See the post from Outback Bloke in my 05 Outback thread, a couple further down the list.)

This does demonstrate how strange it is that no-one else is making kits for our cars, even though there are multiple makers for earlier models, and right up to current Foresters.

A bit hard to tell from the thumbnail, but are your wheels the standard ones used on the late Gen 3 / early Gen 4 Outbacks?

I think they look heaps better than the later '5 blade propellers'.

[baitman]

yes they are standard wheels from gen 3/early 4 outbacks, and are very popular i've been trying to get one for the spare but when they are on ebay they go through the roof in the last few seconds.

[Barry1956]

Baitman,

I thought you might be interested in this thread on Outbacksubarus.com http://www.offroadsubarus.com/showthrea ... 434&page=3 , and in particular, my latest post on page 3.

Yep, love those wheels! I'm also after a fifth. If I come across one (in addition to the one I want! ) I'll let you know.

Barry

[Outback bloke]

Barry, I just read your post on the other forum and I think you are a little off on what can be done with a Gen 4. Due to the lower control arm set up on them you can not go any more than 1" higher on the struts than your lift kit size.

That is if you go a 2" lift you can squeeze in a 3" strut top. This is not a total of 5" of lift. It is a 3" lift. Even a set up like that creates issues with wheel alignments.

Some people fit a 2" strut lift only and all this will do is wear out your tyres and bushes faster than any other way I can think of.

The Gen 1 and 2 were a much better design for lifting and offroad use. The current Outback is worse again than the Gen 4.

[El_Freddo]

Baitman, I've been looking for an engineer to cert the lift and tyres as you are (but I'm in vic). No engineer wants to know me - none will work outside what's already legal, but are happy to charge me money for a certificate for it - what's the bloody point of having engineers around if you can't work outside the VSI-8 which is there to tell you what's legal and what's not without certification??? Frustrating!

Cheers

Bennie

[Barry1956]

Hello again 'OB bloke',

I am a bit confused by your most recent post, and I think it might be because I am unclear about your use of terminology.

I am also hoping that, because you have the Ausubaru kit fitted to your car, you might be able to answer a few things about which I am unclear:

Barry, I just read your post on the other forum and I think you are a little off on what can be done with a Gen 4. Due to the lower control arm set up on them you can not go any more than 1" higher on the struts than your lift kit size.

.

Do you mean that the strut lift cannot be more than 1" greater than the BODY lift? (i.e. is BODY lift what you mean by "lift kit", where I have added bold in the above quote?)
Does this mean that a 1" strut lift doesn't need any body lift? (Which seems to be the subtle-solutions approach.)

From what I can make out on this blog, http://thesuperu.blogspot.com/,which shows the complete Ausubaru kit, it obviously includes body spacers. Are these spacers, as fitted to your car, 1" or 2"?

That is if you go a 2" lift you can squeeze in a 3" strut top. This is not a total of 5" of lift. It is a 3" lift. Even a set up like that creates issues with wheel alignments.

.

By 2" lift do you mean a 2" BODY lift and by 3" strut top do you mean a 3" STRUT lift?

How is this any different to a 1" strut lift and no body lift?

If what you describe "creates issues with wheel alignments" do these same "issues" exist with the "1" strut lift?

If what you meant is not as I have interpreted it, can you please clarify.

Some people fit a 2" strut lift only and all this will do is wear out your tyres and bushes faster than any other way I can think of.

I agree, no way I would do this!

... The Gen 1 and 2 were a much better design for lifting and offroad use. The current Outback is worse again than the Gen 4.

Which is why I'll be sticking with my 05 model year Outback (actually an 04 build). Subaru seem determined to eliminate off-road moding of the Outback.



In short, in your experience, would I adversely affect the life of cv joints, tyres and bushes if I fitted a 1" STRUT lift?

Would it be OK to also fit 1" longer springs, and/or shockers, in addition to the strut lift?

Short of fitting the 2" Ausubaru kit as you have (or similar) could you suggest an alternative approach?

Thanks for helping out with this. Because ours look like being the last 'modable' OBs, I think there will be a lot more interest in 'lifting' this model in future, so I'm sure that many will find your comments of interest.

[maxxair]

barry, youve got it! from my reading of this, that you can have 1" more in the strut tops than the body lift. longer springs could be sounted as a 'strut top lift' (i imagine) i dunno my self, but illd keep all lift bits the same, for an even affct. my 2 cents. cheers.

[baitman]

I'm creating a lot of good discussion with this thread hopefully a few peoples questions are being answered, its true the Gen 4 outback is probably the last generation of the outbacks to be modified. Hey Outback Bloke what size tyres have you got on your 05 outback

[Outback bloke]

A 2" lift kit comprises of 2 inch (50mm) blocks on all your cross members, suspension mounting points and your struts. You are lifting your body 2" from the ground while all your running gear remains at the same height from the ground. All you suspension geometry remains as per factory.

When you fit 3" blocks to your struts instead of the 2" you lift the body another inch along with the running gear. Good for overall clearance but changing the suspension geometry slightly. This is what I have in my car along with 1" lifted springs. My suspension geometry is at its' limit and I can not get a correct wheel alignment. It is close but not exactly as it should be. This set up lifts the body by 4" (100mm) and the running gear by 2".

There is no more left to do with out stuffing things completely which is why I am looking at custom struts and other suspension mods to gain more wheel travel and clearance.

The Gen 1 and 2 can handle greater differences than the Gen 3, 4 and current. The Gen 2 is the best of the lot. Mine was the same as an Outback but with 3" strut tops, 1.5" body blocks, 1" lifted springs and the standard Outback cross member spacers removed. This lifted the body by 4" but the running gear was 4" higher.

I'll have to have a look at my tyres in the morning, I can't remember what they are exactly. They are either 225 or 215 70/16 Bridgestones.

[Outback bloke]

One thing of notice is the larger tyre size actually makes the speedo read closer to correct speed than the factory fitted tyres according to GPS. Stamp-licker has the same tyres as mine but one size smaller (215 compared to a 225 x 70/16) and his speed is exactly correct according to his GPS. Mine is about 98k's on the speedo at a true 100. With the standard tyres on when your speedo says 100 you are doing about 95 by GPS.

[Barry1956]

One thing of notice is the larger tyre size actually makes the speedo read closer to correct speed than the factory fitted tyres according to GPS. Stamp-licker has the same tyres as mine but one size smaller (215 compared to a 225 x 70/16) and his speed is exactly correct according to his GPS. Mine is about 98k's on the speedo at a true 100. With the standard tyres on when your speedo says 100 you are doing about 95 by GPS.

This is kind of good if you do a lot of highway driving (e.g. Geelong - Melbourne against the peak flow, twice a day)!

On cruise control, with the needle just above the limit you are driving just below the limit, there is both good fuel economy and no tickets or loss of points (more or less the equivalent of 'wipe off five'!).

[Barry1956]

yes they are standard wheels from gen 3/early 4 outbacks, and are very popular i've been trying to get one for the spare but when they are on ebay they go through the roof in the last few seconds.

Have sent you a PM source for these rims in your part of the world. I may also have found a source down here (Vic.) which might be cheaper. If so, I'll let you know.

Would be great to be able to rotate 5 new tyres (with old spare in reserve) rather than just 4. Also ensures 20% extra kms from a set of tyres, and no chance of the spare getting old and brittle without use.

[Barry1956]

One thing of notice is the larger tyre size actually makes the speedo read closer to correct speed than the factory fitted tyres according to GPS. Stamp-licker has the same tyres as mine but one size smaller (215 compared to a 225 x 70/16) and his speed is exactly correct according to his GPS. Mine is about 98k's on the speedo at a true 100. With the standard tyres on when your speedo says 100 you are doing about 95 by GPS.

Presumably the difference between 95km/h & 100Km/h speedo reading means that the taller tyres will give an extra 5% total km/s of tyre life.

That would be good!

[Barry1956]

Outback bloke,

Would a 1" strut lift be sufficient to fit your tyres?

Do the plastic arch 'inserts' need trimming?

[0mad]

G'day guys,

I've just stumbled upon this thread so sorry for a bit of a thread dredge from early 2010.

Baitman or Barry, how'd the lift go? Have you completed it yet?

I'm eying off a 2004 Outback and a slightly lift was one of the first things on the agenda so I'm interested to hear how it went.

Another question, the original plan for Baitman was...
1. 2" BYB lift kit
2. Rasied king springs
3. 215/70/r16 cooper discoverer atrs
4. VDO electronic speedo correction box

From what's been said I get the impression its possible to undertake either the raised springs OR the extra inch strut lift to achieve an overall 3 inches. Which would be a better option, an extra inch on the strut blocks or the lifted springs? What are the pros/cons of one over the other?

Greatly appreciated,

Omad

[baitman]

omad just got the lift kit off dave from byb a few weeks ago im going to fit it over xmas hols my plan is still the same raised king springs on standard kyb strut tower the 2" byb lift kit which is 2" body blocks and 2" strut tops 225/70/r16 tyres im not bothering with the speedo correction after what outback bloke has said. i have found my outback is very capable off road in standard form you just have to adjust your driving style and dont follow the car in front you make your own tracks other wise you bottom out in existing tracks. one of the main reasons im lifting it is a few places up here where you enter and exit the beach the track is only one car width wide with very steep sides meaning i cant put one set of wheels on the middle of the track and the other ones on the side of the track the steep sides of the track kind of force you back into existing wheel tracks where you bottom out. im going to take lots of photos and post the build up around xmas so stay tuned:)

[0mad]

Cheers for the reply baitman. Whilst short, this thread contains a heap of good info.
Yeah, if you could keep a build thread updated I'd love to see how it goes

[Barry1956]

Omad,

Haven't been on here in ages, my apols.

Have fitted both the 1" lift and the King Springs, also Whiteline rear camber bushes.

With a total of 2" lift I am stuck with some positive camber at the front. (Unfortunately the adjustable strut tops for the Gen 3 won't fit the Gen 4.
Am trying to ascertain exactly what the problem is. Am hoping they might actually fit under the lift block with a bit of modding to the underside of the block.)

Anyway, I would be afraid that the 2" lift plus King Springs would cause real problems in this regard. Baitman, how has your camber - especially at the front - ended up?

Might also need to fit the kit mentioned in my post #696 here http://offroadsubarus.com/showthread.php?t=801&page=70 on ORS , or similar, at the rear with a total of 3" lift.

Note: Legalities (and hence also insurance!) aside, any more than a 2" total lift can effect air bag deployment, especially for side air bags. Don't know if either of your cars have 'side-curtain' airbags, as mine does.

[El_Freddo]

Note: Legalities (and hence also insurance!) aside, any more than a 2" total lift can effect air bag deployment, especially for side air bags. Don't know if either of your cars have 'side-curtain' airbags, as mine does.

Hence why I stick with the older subi's - that and I know them practically inside and out!

Cheers

Bennie