L series sway bar

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:59 pm

got a l series with 2 inch lift, I am about to replace all shocks, new springs, and all suspension bushes front and rear, with fresh tyres, ball joints and tie rods, what is the general consensus on leave the sway bar bushes off for articulation. Will be driving outback dirt roads, on long trip...bolt up swaybar, or drive abit more sedately so I have better offroad capabilities when required, feed back from those who have tried this would be appreciated.

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:40 pm

Took sway bar off today to try, then took off road I think at lest 15cm more articulation in the front on rutted hill climbs, more complient on suspension on rutted out tracks at moderate speed, on corregated road feel smoother.
On bitumen at 100km slightly more body roll, and around town you can feel more body roll. If I lived in an area where there was lots of bends at speed...which I don't it would be more stable left on I would guess.
But it seems to allow the suspension to work well at moderate speeds and great off road.
I would be interested to see if any difference with the car loaded for a trip.
In summary I would recommend taking off, but don't drive it like a race car through windy roads, I'm leaving it off

Smokey · Post by **Smokey** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:30 pm

Nice update there mate. Good comp on the two surfaces. Gives others an idea to what they might gain and expect should they do the same.

I have a Q though. How would Jr effect sand driving (non LSD). I'm not sure why but u cant visualize it being beneficial having the bar off in heavy sand.

Anyone tried sand without comp to with stab bar?

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:54 pm

I'll let you know in a few days, I'll do a run through the Todd river a see.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:09 pm

Good to know. I've always thought about making a quick disconnect but have never done anything about it, or removed the sway bar when offroad.

It sounds like there's quite a gain to be made by removing the sway bar.

Cheers

Bennie

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:28 pm

Removing the sway bar/s makes it much smoother/easier for harder off road.
So does extending the rod length of the front struts.
If you are running aftermarket springs/shocks, the effect on highway driving of removing the bars, is reduced, compared to standard suspension.

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:08 pm

tambox wrote:Removing the sway bar/s makes it much smoother/easier for harder off road.
So does extending the rod length of the front struts.
If you are running aftermarket springs/shocks, the effect on highway driving of removing the bars, is reduced, compared to standard suspension.

What do you mean by extending the rod length of the front struts?

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:20 pm

What has been done, but you have to be CAREFUL about it, is to cut the top ends off a set of L series struts inner shocker rod.
Then drill it, thread it and screw it onto your existing inner strut rods.
This will give about 20-25mm more suspension travel, when used, gives much better diagonal lift.
BUT, it depends on the shocker/spring setup you are running, otherwise the shockers will bottom out with a bang and generally destroy them.
This can be compensated for by running heavy compression rubbers on the inner shock rods.
You have to measure it all and work it out before you do it.
IT WILL NOT FIT ALL SUSPENSION SETUPS.

Mitchhsj · Post by **Mitchhsj** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:25 pm

this could work well! my l wagon has 4.5inch lift [3body 1.5 springs] and i have never had to much trouble off road the only thing i need is a LSD.. I'm always going on 4wd tripos with bigger 4x4s and i love blowing them away with the cars capabilities but its worth a try, might feel a little sloppy in the frot end though

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:34 pm

tambox wrote:What has been done, but you have to be CAREFUL about it, is to cut the top ends off a set of L series struts inner shocker rod.
Then drill it, thread it and screw it onto your existing inner strut rods.
This will give about 20-25mm more suspension travel, when used, gives much better diagonal lift.
BUT, it depends on the shocker/spring setup you are running, otherwise the shockers will bottom out with a bang and generally destroy them.
This can be compensated for by running heavy compression rubbers on the inner shock rods.
You have to measure it all and work it out before you do it.
IT WILL NOT FIT ALL SUSPENSION SETUPS.

Are you saying cut 20mm of the top of a old pair of struts and tap this piece of shaft and thread it onto the new strut?.
will be using new KYB gas struts and springs I was going with Kings, but I wouldn't mind trying a set of pintara spring mod that Ive recently read.

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:41 pm

Yes.

From what I have done, 20mm and KYB struts, with kings springs, no stabiliser bars, can bottom out with a bang. Be careful and measure it all.
Less than 20mm is required on that setup.
Now the engineering calculations come into it, thread length vs force.
Good luck.
A small amount makes a big difference when 4wdriving.

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:56 am

tambox wrote:Yes.

From what I have done, 20mm and KYB struts, with kings springs, no stabiliser bars, can bottom out with a bang. Be careful and measure it all.
Less than 20mm is required on that setup.
Now the engineering calculations come into it, thread length vs force.
Good luck.
A small amount makes a big difference when 4wdriving.

I haven't thought about the sway I've taken off. I guess that this devise also prevents the shock from topping out. If so I think I,ll pop it back on. The other thing I am trying to imagine is how such a small amount extended to the shaft can make a difference off road?

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:35 am

I thought the small difference would not make much difference, but it changed the driveability of the car. Places where I would normally spin one front wheel, just, it went around without loosing traction.
Every little bit helps.
Stepping over rocks etc works better as well.
Those were the differences I could feel straight away, you get used to where the wheels are going to loose traction, in some situations, it changes the feel.

The sway bar reduces the speed/distance the two wheels can move relative to each other, not what you want for 4wdriving.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:26 am

I did the Finke 3 times in my old RX Turbo. 3" body lift and no sway bars. With heavier springs you don't really need them.

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:46 pm

I had a good look over your brumby this year at the start line park lot, I look for it each year, how did you finish up, what part of NT are you from?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:25 pm

Limped in with a blown front shock. 4th in class.

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:41 pm

brumbyrunner wrote:I did the Finke 3 times in my old RX Turbo. 3" body lift and no sway bars. With heavier springs you don't really need them.

How did the struts go with topping out did you run straps to prevent this, and would I need to run straps to prevent the shocks banging on extension?
The most I will be doing is something like the Tanami at speed 100-110kph road conditions dependant off course. Could this be an issue if front drops into a bull dust hole or the like?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:20 pm

I'd recommend you run a 2nd shock on the front (at least). Make sure you use an oil shock because what you're after is better rebound control. It will save your rubber strut tops from disintegrating and help your front struts survive too.

pzs · Post by **pzs** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:50 pm

Quote from other site"

(QUOTE) A cheap method for firming up the front suspension is to fit a double shock system using rear X series Falcon stocks. The mounting brackets are made of 100mm x 100mm x 6mm right angle plate, with welded on gusset, baited to the bottom of the strut leg with exhaust clamps. The top strut flower mount should have two formed washers, one placed on the inside of the tower and the other under the shock mounting nut. The top mount on the L Series and reinforcing plate should be welded in place." (UNQUOTE)

I have done this to the letter, but the front suspension was so hard, I couldn't drive it, was worried about busting some other suspension component, maybe I used the wrong shocks?

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:43 pm

Maybe.

I should point out that I have never done this mod to any of my cars, except the race Brumby in 2007 when, due to circumstances, we didn't end up racing anyway. Probably a blessing because it was nowhere near good enough to survive, and then we changed to MCA Suspension front struts in 2008.

I've driven plenty of Ls and MYs that had the mod done though and I remember hearing about a trip by the QLD Subaru Club 15 or so years ago where they drove up the old Ghan line service road from Apatula to Alice. The reason I remember is that every Subaru that didn't have a secondary front shock busted their strut tops.

What I've always done is adjust the shim packs in the front struts to change the way they work and this has been pretty good. It doesn't protect your rubber strut tops though so they need replacing occasionally. I doubt you'd find someone willing to mess around with those old shocks nowadays.

If you don't like the ride of dual front shocks, just use a HD King Spring with a new KYB strut and see how that goes. It's the best off-the-shelf solution that we've come up with.

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L series sway bar

L series sway bar

took sway bar off to try