Finally suspension progress for Ellie RX .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:22 pm

Hi all , I finally got to my suspension mentors fabrication hot shop today and up she went on the platform hoist for an assessment

He measured the anti roll bars and they were what the 87 factory manual quoted as 19mm front and 16mm rear . They have a master for L series front bars though mine is being made as 24mm so not a stock item . The rear they had never seen and the one being made for me will be 22mm . My standard rear bar they are keeping as their new master .
The rubber "D" bushes are being replaced with urathane bushes back and front .
I already have Gee's exchange control arms with urathane bushes and some left over radius rod bushes from the Nissan days . Just on this the radius rods have about 12-13mm of thread pointing back behind the rear nylock nut so these will be wound back and large washers placed in front of the leading bush to push the struts forward and hopefully gain a couple of degrees of badly needed positive caster . I also have a pair of Nissan R30 radius rods that with one of their arm drillings redrilled will also fit for maby a bit more again . We also ordered urethane bushes for the trailing arms as well .
This is the end of stage 1) .

Stage 2) has to wait until the 5 stud conversion at the front takes place because we are going to fit prototype Impreza struts and these really are a piece of work . They are basically a coilover type damper with threaded lower spring seats , but the real eye opener is the threaded lower section which the hub section of the struts bolts to . Its aluminium and has its own lock nut to stop it turning once set . Its brilliant because you can screw the strut up and down in the hub mounts casting and adjust the lower spring seat wherever you like . Its set up for 66-67mm ID springs which are available in a huge range of lengths and rates , I think the first try will be ~ 230-250 inch pounds . The small diameter springs will make it possible to fit adjustable struts tops which I aim to reposition to increase caster rather than camber .

Something with the 85/86 model L RX turbos may interest some of you as well , the springs in the back of my car worked out to be ~ 180 in/lbs which is different to the ~ 160 in/lb springs quoted in the 87 factory manual . According to my manual only the L RX Coup got 180 in/lb springs so the 85/86 model rear springs are the ones to have given a choice .
We are going to try aftermarket 200 in/lb springs which is just a smidge up on the factory 195 in/lb L 4WD wagon ones .

The rear dampers look like possibly being a Koni and their people in Victoria are looking through their range to see what suits the length and travel + the 12mm lower eye mount size .

My head is still spinning and I can't wait to fit the larger bars possibly tomorrow afternoon .

Fingers detonating , cheers A .

ToyRX · Post by **ToyRX** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:18 pm

230-250 in the front will give you a firm ride on tarseal, by way of comparison my EJ20G leone runs 300in/lb springs in rally trim
I am going to get new rear springs but have no idea on current rate so your info above is a good starting point - thanks
I have to ask though - why such a huge front sway bar? might make it push in the corners?
Also if you want more castor adjustment just take your nissan radius rods to a eng shop and get them to extend the thread length on the lathe. Make it long enough (ans small enough to get through the housing/bushes) and simply put a nyloc nut on each side of the bush washers so you can dial in any caster you want. From experiance squeesing extra washers in the front is a frustrating exersise.
Keep us posted on progress.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:38 pm

We will have to wait and see - much of this depends on how the dampers are valved .

The idea is that if the body resists roll (increased roll stiffness) the geometry doesn't change too much . Also the rate is high to suit Subaru's suspension arm lever ratios . Effectively the fronts gone from 19-24 and the rear 16 to 22 , I'll look up the rate increases later at Whitelines website , if interested is in their catalog which you can be download .

We can only really go so far camber wise by pushing the strut feet forward with these cars then the CV joint angles cause them to suffer .
The best way with a macpherson strut has always been to alter camber/caster at the top because it keeps the angles at the foot closer to std and makes wheel aligning so much easier .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:03 pm

I've also been running the different figures between 179 in/lb rear springs and 157 in/lb front ones . The ratio ends up being 1.140 so 200 divided by that figure = 175 . So the same ratio back to front would give ~ 200 and 175 in/lbs .
I was just thinking that factory springs , 179 lb (86 RX rear) and 196 lb (wagon rear) used front and back would be a reasonable first try and cheap if you already have them . You would need height adjustable struts that suit 66mm ID springs but its doable .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:18 pm

Anti roll bars increased rate with diameter .

Rear : Std 16mm to 22mm = 257% or 2.57 times the std bars rate .
Front : Std 19mm to 24mm = 155% 0r 1.55 times the std bars rate .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:30 pm

Long day yesterday but worth it .

The two anti roll bars are now fitted and the radius rods spaced forward for a little extra positive caster .

The results are quite good , as expected the body rolls a fair bit less and that's makes cornering a lot more predictable and less nail biting . What its now telling me is that it wants higher spring rates to better suit the increased roll stiffness . In the sorts of corners that Ellies 20 cent tyres can grip on ie std 185/60/13's it rolls just a tad as the bars and urethane bushes take up and then it floats slightly on the coil springs because the rates are not matched . I'm about to talk to my mentor and ask him if its supposed to feel like the roll stiffness is greater front than rear . I expect him to say that the rest will be handled by higher spring rates but then he hasn't done one of these particular Subies - RS's and Rex's yes but RX's no .

He also showed me a pair of adjustable front strut tops - the urethane type ones and I'll use ones designed for GC8's because the bolt pattern I believe is the same as L series . There is an inverted version for cars with limited bump travel std and I'll be looking at these when the Impreza struts go together .

I'm waiting on early Lib RS front calipers because their mounting brackets will allow my L handbrake calipers to fit Lib hubs directly with RS disks .
The front should all bolt together with Gee's modded control arms and the correct early Lib front CVs on L RX turbo half shafts .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:58 am

Minor setback , one of the rear bar bush retaining hoops literally peeled itself open so have to find a plan B mod to keep it all together .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:59 pm

Can't get at suspension mentors hoist ATM , Evo 3 racer there for a day or two .

There is a mod he says works real well for beefed up anti roll bar mounts if the factory ones don't cut it . Welding and fab ? nup ...

Drill two holes throught the under sides of the trailing arms (for each bar bush mount) to slide in crush tubes . Through the tops of the arms drill holes for the bolts to pass down through and then fit the harbour bridge shaped brackets to retain the bars bushes . The through bolts clamp up between the outer top of the arm (and the top of the crush tube which is under the top of the trailing arm) and the bottom of the crush tube on one side and the bushes bracket which bears on the bottom of the arm . The crush tube prevents you collapsing the hollow arm in on itself when you tighten up the through bolts and nuts .

This should keep the larger diameter 22mm rear bar from destroying its mounts even if it grows to 23 or 24 .

The rear Koni dampers have been selected and are just waiting to get a trip on the damper dyno to make sure the valving will suit an ~ 200 in/lb spring . Youzle never guess what they're std fitment for but just for a taste they are -nah ya have to wait until we prove they work .

Cheers A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:24 am

Hi all , much thicker section rear anti roll bar bush retaining brackets were fitted yesterday and now the 22mm bar is working as intended .

When the rear 4WD semi trailing arms are removed to have their bushes changed to urethane we will change the design so that ordinary two bolt type brakets bolt straight up . The "hinging" tab one bolt type is a cheap nasty system though many manufacturers do it to save money . We will probably weld gussetts on so that the mounts/arms will stand up to even larger bars if necessary .

Will also look at the rear struts lower arm mount because it may need to go lower - depends on the compressed length of the new damper .

I can also feel the rear cross member and rear diff bracket "walking around" on their soft factory rubber bushes .
What we did with my old DR30 Skyline (which also had semi trailing arm IRS) was glue all the air gaps up around the bushing material with Stikaflex which comes in large tubes like silastic . This gives the effect of more like the old Works firmer bushes with stiffer material but just enough give to stop things breaking . Only prob is that the X member has to be out for a couple of days because you use a fair bit of Stikaflex and it needs time to set , flip it over and do the other side the following day .

Front end also feels like a bit of squirming is also going on . Could possibly put this down to soft control arm bushes/worn ball joints/soft rack bushes/soft strut tops/any rubber bushings between the front cross member and the body shell .

We'll do the back first and the front will follow when the Impreza style struts/Lib hubs/CV's and L calipers on RS caliper brackets all go in together .

It does urk me to look up at the engine and see virtually all of it in front of the front wheel centre line because it yells lead tipped arrow . Its a prob with all MY/L/Imprezas but thats production cars for you .

Cheers A .

colwyn · Post by **colwyn** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:52 am

The spings interest me as my suspention on my rx is bad but its a weekend bush car mainly so don't want to spend up on new shocks springs.

PM sent too

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:13 am

Wagon springs should be cheap and go in where the RX rear springs were .
For the cost and effort to change I'd fit whatever aftermarket or genuine rear dampers are available .

Hint : If you get the top body mounts/rubbers/bushes/nuts at the same time as the wagon rear springs you can have two sets of rear struts .
Then when you get around it change over the complete units as simply as three bolts .

A .

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:59 am

The Koni rear struts are now in and the results are very good .

The Konis themselves are intended for an MX5 though they are not a straight fit in an L series - aside from the lower eye .
Mine has small diameter aluminium spring seats and the lower one screws up or down on a threaded tube which locates on a circlip on the damper bady .
This is screwed up as far as it will go ATM and the ride height is just a tad tail low . I'm going to get my rally fabricator to weld extention plates to the top body mounts to one raise it up a bit and two screw the lower spring seats down a little .

The springs we used are 225 in/lb Eibach coils and the rate is just right , doesn't thump over road imperfections and the damper valving is on the money for the spring rate .

The result is that the body rolls less and it feels MUCH better when pushed into bends . The front suspension moves less now that the car has more roll resistance so it pretty much stays merely woeful rather than suicidal .
It still understeers if pushed but you have to expect that when you have a degree of static positive camber standard - shakes head .

My car being an 85-86 RX-Turbo has the inverted height adjustment gear on its front struts and I'm wondering if I can remove the adjustment nuts to drop the lower spring seats and ride height a little . By doing this the outer ends of the front control arms should raise a little (in relation to the cross member locating points) pushing the struts outwards and decreasing that hateful positive camber a bit . I'm basically doing the best I can with std worn out stuff while the new bits are in the pipe .
The new front struts are a height adjustable aftermarket WRX thing though not Koni or Bilstein , mentor just wants me to try them - who am I to argue ?

It'll take time because I have to rebuild the front uprights bearings - and the shafts/MY00 brakes/and CrossBred kit all have to come together in a day . Also mentor is borowing the tool that rolls inner guards so have to be lurking and do mine at the same time .

Also getting hold of some micky mouse brake rotors based on modified DBA4000's that never went into production , one of only two sets made so something different .

In time , cheers A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:26 pm

poop, Sam, exchange LCA's mentioned in first post of this thread, not individually handcrafted like someone else we know