Hello from Melbourne, thinking about buying :)

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:21 pm

Hello everyone,

My names Jeremy and Im from Melbourne.

I've been thinking recently about selling my babies (I own two cars, a Mazda Eunos 500 and a Ford Telstar) and purchasing a Subaru.

I would like to purchase a third generation Subaru Liberty, and I would like one that is fully loaded to be honest, hasn't done too many kays and will be a good enough car that it makes up for the two cars I lose.

But before I make the decision and take the plunge to sell the two loves of my life, I would like to know everything and anything there is to know about Subaru Liberties.

The main reason I want to buy one is so I can drive it straight to the wreckers, fit it with OutBack suspension and then go bush bashing in the thing (and in case your wondering why I just dont get an Outback, I want a sedan lol)

Ideally I'd like one under 100,000kays but these are pretty rare, I'm willing to settle for under 150,000 for the right car at the right price.

But can someone please tell me, what are they like to drive, are they good on fuel, do they accelerate quickly, are they quiet and comfortable at highway speeds, can it overtake well, can it handle hills and pull a trailer without problem, is it reliable, what kind of problems occur with them (if any), what needs to be serviced when (for example in my Eunos 500 an unknown fact to most mechanics is that the water pump MUST be done at the same time as the timing belt), so on and so on.

I wan't to know everything there is to know about this car before I commit to buying one.

I would probably prefer a manual transmission as it would be better for offroading (and no Im not talking serious off-roading, nothing more than what an Outback would be expected to do, but I still think a manual would be better) plus a manual is more fun, but if the auto is still good at off-roading and is as good on fuel I would consider it.

One thing I hate about my Eunos 500 is the manual transmission sits at 100 at 3500rpm, and the auto sits at 2500rpm despite having one less gear, the Telstar is also a 3 speed auto and sits at 3600rpm at 100. I was wondering, for both manual and auto what speed the engine does at 100, as for once in my life I'd like it to be under 3000 haha. I plan on doing some 130 driving as well so if its sitting at above 3000 at 100 I can only imagine the pain at 130.

Please be honest, it would be a big commitment for me and I don't want another lemon

So yeah. Thanks in advance for any help and sorry if this is posted in the wrong section, feel free to move it.

Thanks again!

Jeremy.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:56 am

If your primary concern is revs at cruise speeds you need something like a six or V8 that will do 100 @ something like 2000rpm and at that sort of speed will match the economy of a four cylinder sube. Problem is an Outback suspension won't fit. I doubt you will find a Subaru lemon unless it has been abused since leaving the orchard.

Tigger · Post by **Tigger** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:05 am

Hi Jeremy, welcome to the forum

I wouldn't worry too much about a couple of extra kms on the clock. I have met many a Subaru with lots and lots of kms on them and still running strong, in fact some ownvers have said they are just broken in

Lifting your Liberty might be a little more involved to than just putting in the Outback struts as Steptoe has mentioned but lifted sedans look mean and it would be well worth the effort

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:44 pm

The 2.5 liberty sits on about 2500rpm at 100km/h

Compared to my old L series, and even my wifes 2004 Forester, its very comfortable to drive, mine has 260,000 odd kms and the suspension isnt what it used to be, but the definate choice if we are long distance touring
Fuel usage is around the 9.5 - 10.5 l/100km depending on how you drive. Power is acceptable, not outstanding, its a 2.5L engine pushing 1450kg of car
I often pull a box trailer without worries, but unbraked towing capacity is only 500kg and braked is 1500kg. I havent towed 1500kg, but I imagine it would be slow.

Converting to Outback suspension is a little more involved than just driving to a wreckers and bolting some stuff up. Occasionally you will find lifting suspension parts from a de-lifted Outback on other Subaru forums where lowering cars is the norm.
There may be a thread on this forum about adding Outback gear to a Liberty also
As for service issues, there arent many. Some 2.5 engine have been know to develop an external headgasket leak, but not many. I replaced my water pump at the 200,000km service and it was perfectly fine, not a drop of green in the weep hole, I also replaced the cam and crank seals before they caused trouble.

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:49 pm

Thanks everyone for your response!

@Steptoe: I do a mix of freeway and city driving and I rack up around 20,000kays a year, maybe even more, so I need a car that is good at both. Problem with a 6 or 8 is despite their amazing economy on the highway, they drink it in the city. But the 4 cyl sube should be fine? And my bad in thinking outback suspension would fit, i thought it was basically the same car! Yeah I've heard subaru's are reliable but people said the same about mazdas and ive had problems with all three of them!

@Tigger: Thanks

Hahaha yeah, still though, my current Telstar has done 175000, and the next car I want to buy, I want it to be an upgrade in every single way, and I plan to keep it for, well, basically forever haha, so its best to get the lowest kay one I can find now

Im not too fussed about if its alot of work, I dont care, the Telstar has been heaps of work as well but worth it

Its the end result that matters!

@Gannon: 2500 is fine

It sounds like its a fairly comfortable car, whats it like when you show it some corners? I imagine with AWD grip it should be pretty sweet?

Fuel usage and power sound reasonable. I don't want a racecar (yet...), if I could get a B4 I probably would but ahhhh those P-Plate laws! Still the stockie cant be any worse than the Telstar on fuel or power. The telstar is hopeless at both, 24 years old and still going haha

And wowww 1500kg towing! Thats awesome, the most the Telstar is "allowed" to do is 950 (and Ive pulled more than that but it was fine).

Im up for the effort of changing the suspension if it means I can go bush bashing!

Oh one more question, engine wise, is it cheap to service? The Eunos costs an absolute bomb just for an oil change (its a 2.0L V6 in the size of an Impreza, so its hard work to do anything!), and does it have that legendary subaru boxer sound or have they drowned that out with fancy exhausts? And if its the latter, can i get it back!? I like that noise

Looks like a car worth thinking about! Ive also seen a couple of (Ill admit bottem range) 4th gens in my price range, also worth thinking about or am i better off with a range topper 3rd gen?

Thanks again

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:42 pm

Outbacks are the same basic platfrom as Libertys. To put Outback suspension in you need the struts, lifting blocks, steering knuckle and rear lateral arms. If u can get all that then it is just bolt-in from there.

Standard Liberty suspension is nothing special and if you raise it it will be understeer city - easily fixed with a stiffer rear sway bar or softer front sway bar - or both.

Go the Gen 4 if you can afford it - much better car.

I have a 99 Outback and have towed a loaded car trailer without much problem.
They are thirsty though - 12l/100km around town.

You might be better waiting until you are off your P plates and get a turbo if you want to tow and they are (depending on driving style) better on fuel in my experience.

And my 99 has 370,000kms - had the engine replaced at 128k (don't know why) and the auto gearbox at 330,000. Its obviously showing its age but everything still works and it has no major faults - its in better condition than some cars I have had with less than half the k's.

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:56 pm

@Niterida: Thanks for the info on the suspension, that sounds all like stuff I can get!

Maybe Ill just take it to a suspension shop and get all of this done there instead of DIYing.

I can afford a Gen 4 (just, with probably a bit of negotiating) but only like the base base model, and Id rather a Gen 3 in top spec haha. I also prefer the looks of the 3rd genner, and the fact that like the stereo for example is a standard Double Din thing so its easy to upgrade whereas in the Gen 4 its like a built in thing.

Yeah my Telstar gets 12 in the city, sometimes worse, but it doesnt get much better on the highway unfortunately, its like 12 all the time. I wouldnt mind so much if it had some actual power.

Ive thought of that too but I dont think I can wait two years haha, would it be overly difficult to drop a turbo motor in it later if I wanted to? Are there any other legal upgrade mods i can do to improve the performance?

Sounds good haha

Thanks!

60766244 · Post by **60766244** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:05 pm

After just getting a 4th Gen Outback - I can completely and without restraint say: Get one!

Hehe Not biased...

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:34 pm

Haha if only they had Outback sedans

Mum and I had a little chat. The Eunos is definately going. Consider that as for sale lol. But we think a better idea, is to wait til Im off my P's and buy a Turbo Subie. And then I can have a car that is absolutely brilliant at everything and keep that.

But then Ive got to drive the Telstar for two years and let me tell you that won't be fun, basically run it into the ground...

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:12 pm

JeremyK wrote: would it be overly difficult to drop a turbo motor in it later if I wanted to?

Yes - well not overly difficult but you have to ut a B4 twin turbo motor in it to make it as easy as possible and the wiring would still be a concern.

JeremyK wrote: Are there any other legal upgrade mods i can do to improve the performance?

No - nothing that would be cost effective and give you a decent upgrade.

Is the 3.0L H6 P plate friendly ? That might be your best bet - heaps of power (186kw I think ??) for towing and off-road and reasonable fuel economy. Great long distance tourer and they only come in top-of-the-range. I know you said you want a sedan but seriously a H6 Outback will do EVRYTHING you want it to and won't cost you ANY extra money for lift its etc and it will be completely FACTORY STANDARD so won't give you issues.

You can get them for around $5k with high Kms but the engines go forever - well a good 500,000 if looked after.

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:40 pm

niterida wrote:Yes - well not overly difficult but you have to ut a B4 twin turbo motor in it to make it as easy as possible and the wiring would still be a concern.

No - nothing that would be cost effective and give you a decent upgrade.

Is the 3.0L H6 P plate friendly ? That might be your best bet - heaps of power (186kw I think ??) for towing and off-road and reasonable fuel economy. Great long distance tourer and they only come in top-of-the-range. I know you said you want a sedan but seriously a H6 Outback will do EVRYTHING you want it to and won't cost you ANY extra money for lift its etc and it will be completely FACTORY STANDARD so won't give you issues.

You can get them for around $5k with high Kms but the engines go forever - well a good 500,000 if looked after.

In that case I may as well just buy a B4 to begin with! Its so tempting to buy it in my mums name, replace the bonnet with a standard one, rip all the "Im a fast car" badges/bodykits off and drive it anyway. But if i get caught!!! I dont want the cops taking mah subey!!!

Ive thought about an outback as well haha! Theyre nice cars, depends if im willing to compromise on my sedan, ill think about it haha.

I might just drive the telstar for two more years (run it in to the ground) and buy a B4 haha.

Orrrr maybe Ill just buy an outback, if i ever have kids the wagon will probably prove to be the best choice!

I might go take a few for a test drive at a dealer so im not wasting any bodies time (other than the dealer who get that all the time anyway) haha

Id rather spend more money on a low kay one haha, no matter how long they last, it means i can have it for even longer!

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:20 pm

Go a H6 Gen 3 outback, you wont regret the wagon, the 6 cylinder has 169kw, well kitted out if you get a limited version (leather, momo steering wheel, dual sunroofs) and the factory 6 stacker clarion head unit is bloody good for a factory system.

Only downside to the H6 is it requires premium fuel and its a little thirstier than the 4 cylinder.

Only thing is the H6 only comes in auto, but that wouldnt bother me as I have an auto

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:40 pm

Hmmm, I did really want a sedan (and a 4 cylinder... and a manual) so beginning to compromise a fair bit, but i will definetly take an outback for a test drive along with a standard liberty. the standard liberty may prove to be perfectly fine, i wouldnt know cos i havent driven one yet haha. i find most manual cars are decent and then the auto saps all the power!

The Eunos requires premium fuel, is it premium 95 or 98? The Eunos is "95 min, 98 reco" haha. The joys of the Telstar that requires 89 haha. Cant even get that any more!!

Thanks for the advice!

60766244 · Post by **60766244** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:58 pm

The autobox in the Outback isn't what I would call "refined" but it's alright. Certainly not as bad as some I've come across, and not as good as a manual for speed.
But when stuck in that traffic jam (like I forever seem to be) the Auto is a godsend.

As for Sedan vs Wagon... Why are you so fixed on the sedan? They're harder to back up, less vision, have less boot space, less roof-rack space, and just ain't as sexy???

(I'm a wagon fanboy)

Also the best bit with wagons: You put those back seats down, roll out the swag, and the Mrs and you can have space for activities!

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:54 pm

60766244 wrote:The autobox in the Outback isn't what I would call "refined" but it's alright. Certainly not as bad as some I've come across, and not as good as a manual for speed.
But when stuck in that traffic jam (like I forever seem to be) the Auto is a godsend.

As for Sedan vs Wagon... Why are you so fixed on the sedan? They're harder to back up, less vision, have less boot space, less roof-rack space, and just ain't as sexy??? (I'm a wagon fanboy)

Also the best bit with wagons: You put those back seats down, roll out the swag, and the Mrs and you can have space for activities!

I used to drive a manual Eunos 500 (my old car) all the time as a daily driver, and despite the synchro on first being dead and a badly adjusted clutch, I didnt mind driving it too much. Ive become so lazy in the Telstar with its auto! I almost want a manual just so Im not so lazy haha!

I dunno, no offence but I just dont like the look of the wagon, Ive always preferred sedans and still do haha! I can fold the seats down in the Telstar and fit a mattress in there for "activities" haha. Can you not fold down the seats on the sedan liberty cos if not then itll have to be a wagon as I usually need to fold the seats down at some point (like that time I carried a spare Telstar motor and gearbox in the boot of the Telstar... Good times!)

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:43 pm

Easy solution:

Do what Hydrowill has done: Get a H6 outback that you like, pull the auto box and install a dual range forester box. Easiest way to get a dual range manual H6

There are some little bits that need to be done wiring wise with the TCU (Transmission Control Unit).

Sedan - pfft. Once you go with a wagon you don't look back at sedans. A/ they're more practical and B/ the look great!

My 20c worth

Cheers

Bennie

Tigger · Post by **Tigger** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:45 am

I'm with you Jeremy, I prefer sedans too! Still not used to my wagon yet

They seem unfinished to me...

JeremyK · Post by **JeremyK** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:23 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Easy solution:

Do what Hydrowill has done: Get a H6 outback that you like, pull the auto box and install a dual range forester box. Easiest way to get a dual range manual H6 There are some little bits that need to be done wiring wise with the TCU (Transmission Control Unit).

Sedan - pfft. Once you go with a wagon you don't look back at sedans. A/ they're more practical and B/ the look great!

My 20c worth

Cheers

Bennie

That sounds like a huge amount of work lol, I'd rather just get a manual to begin with. Im really tempted by the B4's, so I might just wait til I can get one of those.

And well I really dont need a wagon, I just dont need a car that big haha! Only reason I would get one would be because the B4 doesnt exist, but they do and they can only get cheaper