Doug's EA81 Rebuild stuff.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm

Gee, thats a mighty nice thing to say steptoe....maybe a little ahead of time...the motor is still in bits and the EFI isnt working yet

. Be happy to take some pics if you like. I havent gone into too much detail about anything incase it doesnt work. I dont want people to read a few posts, think "great, i can do this with my car!" make it all up only to find out it doesnt work. I prefere the get it working first approach. Not long now though.

There shouldnt really be any waste fuel Paul. Each injector fires once per crank rotation. In other words everytime a plug fires one of the injectors goes off. The thing that changes between pulses is which cylinder is using the fuel (theoretically, there could be the potential for fuel to minger in the intake manifold and get used in the next induction stroke of that cylinder bank). Subaru's early MPFI systems where more of a waste fuel system. Two valves fired each time. One into an induction and one into a compresson. The fuel just lingers around until induction. Exactly the same principle. Works fine. More or less, my system is the same but Im going to use a single injector instead of the two.

I hope that's clear??

Regards

Doug

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:11 pm

Of course.. I'm an idiot.. you have only one intake for each head. I'm thinking of the EA82 EFI manifold.. DOH !!

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:03 am

I think you will be "hit and miss" running one injector per head.

MPFI (one injector per cylinder) or SPFI (one injector for the whole engine) are better options.

SPFI, as far as the engine is concerned, is really an electronic carburettor supplying atomised fuel to be vaporised within the inlet manifold.

An injector mounted near the cylinder head in a siamesed intake port will favour one cylinder.
You have successive firing strokes for both banks, firing order being 1,3,2,4.

So I can't see how you will get the correct amount of fuel for each cylinder from one injector.

If NO.1 is firing, 3 is at BDC on the inlet stroke.
So no matter when you fire the injector, one cylinder will get no or very little fuel.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:09 am

littlewhiteute wrote:I think you will be "hit and miss" running one injector per head.

MPFI (one injector per cylinder) or SPFI (one injector for the whole engine) are better options.

SPFI, as far as the engine is concerned, is really an electronic carburettor supplying atomised fuel to be vaporised within the inlet manifold.

An injector mounted near the cylinder head in a siamesed intake port will favour one cylinder.
You have successive firing strokes for both banks, firing order being 1,3,2,4.

So I can't see how you will get the correct amount of fuel for each cylinder from one injector.

If NO.1 is firing, 3 is at BDC on the inlet stroke.
So no matter when you fire the injector, one cylinder will get no or very little fuel.

That is correct, and i Am doing SPFI

. Just when talking about when injectors fire its easier to reference it to a cylinder. Initially the injectors are probably going to be mounted on the airbox side of the butterfly for ease on install.

Bloody hell, for some reason I had in my head that the firing order was 1-4-3-2

. Cheers for clearing that up. So in other words, one injector will fire for cylinders 1 and 2, and the other for cylinders 3 and 4, but the injectors will still be up in the throttle body. Make sence?

Regards

Doug

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:10 pm

If your injectors are on the airbox side of the throttle body, whether you have 1,2, or 20 injectors, it will still be equivalent to SPFI.
It makes sense to me if you go this route with 2 injectors AND you have a mappable ECU to drive them.

Whether you fire them sequentially or batchfire, will be immaterial, as long as the engine receives a combustible A/F ratio versus coolant temp etc.

The firing order is 1,3,2,4. The cylinder numbering of 1 and 3 is drivers bank, 2 and 4 is passengers bank.

So you can see 1 injector per cylinder head won't work.

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:11 pm

Gary, Yep, deffinately SPFI, or TBI.

Regards

Doug

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:31 pm

Hey Fella's,

Little bit off topic, made up a cargo floor for the wagon. Came out Ok I think. Heaps of room underneath for my basic kit (rope, shovel, jacks, pump, spare hose, fuel lines ect) and heaps more floor room. Could even sleep in there. Also folds up and can be removed.

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:21 pm

Once saw an LPG bottle screwed in just there, the rest of the wagon was filled with firewood

Versatile units even after 30 years !

60766244 · Post by **60766244** » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:44 pm

Looks mint!

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:26 am

Got some big ends yesterday. Shouldnt be too much longer till I start putting it back together. April is pretty much screwed for me though.....May is where its at!

Regards

Doug

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:53 am

steptoe wrote:Once saw an LPG bottle screwed in just there, the rest of the wagon was filled with firewood Versatile units even after 30 years !

Illegal to carry LPG bottles inside your car which is stupid as most LPG powered wagons have the bottle inside?

60766244 wrote:Looks mint!

I agree

Subydoug wrote:Got some big ends yesterday. Shouldnt be too much longer till I start putting it back together. April is pretty much screwed for me though.....May is where its at!

Regards

Doug

Sounds good Doug.. can't wait to see it up and running

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:06 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Illegal to carry LPG bottles inside your car which is stupid as most LPG powered wagons have the bottle inside?

There's got to be some clause for the use of auto LPG bottles - hence the separation of the LPG tank's valves atmosphere to the interior of the vehicle with the use of flexible conduit.

Stupid law anyway - Dad tells me everyone used to carry them in their vehicles, just that some idiot got it wrong and blew their car up - so it became law as usual due to one muppet. And that's where the nanny country began.

End rant.

Cheers

Bennie

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:47 pm

My Old mazda ute was set up pretty good. 40l LPG tank where the spare bolted up underneath and the standard ulp tank. Used to get well into the 800km mark without fueling up

. Spare went into the tray. LPG seems a little bit too pricy now though. I used to be annoyed if it was over 60c/l

. Dont think il be sticking an LPG kit into the wagon any time soon. Im now getting around 8-9L to the 100kms mixed driving. Did some calcs the other day. Used to use about 190 bucks of fuel a month with the auto tranny. With the manual its down to around $130 a month. Overdrive is a good thing

. I wonder what price aus sells LPG overseas for.......wankers.

Nothing new to the little ea81. Been using the wagon as a daily for the last few days. Vortex has a perpetually deflating tire and I got sick of pumping it back up, though I must admit. Driving without wipers has been interesting to say the least

. Chances are Il order some new pistons and rings in the next few weeks.....still need to get the valve seats cut......too much boring life crap getting in the way. Always the way

. Patience will prevail.

Regards

Doug

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:45 am

the warning sticker on LPG bowsers alerting to fact that if you had a Sidek PRX safety valve fitted between certain dates about 2003 - saw an educational photo of a Commodore? wagon stoped at the traffic lights and its ejected LPG fuel tank 30m behind it sitting alone on the road. I don't think the wagon was reuseable after that episode.
Think they found blame was not the valve in the end, as the standard was updated to use a larger diameter fill hose in order to allow the fill valve to shut off properly at 80%, not sneak more in causing problems for the valve in question

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sat May 04, 2013 10:08 pm

Hey fella's

Spent a few hours, got this going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-DvEd-uec

Just running some test code at the moment that just alternates between the injectors at 500ms intervels. I changed it up a bit too. Now im not going to use any crank triggering. Instead Im using my points to trigger the injectors. The ECU will just alternate between injectors. Still needing tweaks and what not but Im hoping to get it into the car soon. Just going to confirm it works before I pull it back off and get it all setup on the new motor, which I still havent touched for a while

.

Regards

Doug

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun May 05, 2013 10:30 am

Subydoug wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir-DvEd-uec

very nice Doug if it works with points then I'm assuming it will work with an electronic dizzy and why cant we see under the greeting card ?

TOONGA

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun May 05, 2013 12:24 pm

I would show you whats under the greeting card, but its evolved into somewhat of a master of lashups and "just hook that up there" sorta thing. Im deffinately going to have to build a new one for actually running the car off full time. Will probably etch up a pcb.

In other news, grrrrrr, appears at first glance that im missing triggers. Could be a number of things but first guess is its actually working properly, im just not seeing it on my slow scope. Might plug the pc in and monitor the serial port, make sure before changing anything. Nothing really for it now I suppose.....time to get the fuel flowing

Regards

Doug

Subydoug · Post by **Subydoug** » Sun May 05, 2013 2:50 pm

Well, my car just ran for about 5min with EFI

. Turned it off to tackle a few little, hmmm, bugs but so far looking promising.

Regards

Doug

tony · Post by **tony** » Sun May 05, 2013 3:35 pm

my mates ford coupe had a couple of gas bottles in the boot, blew up an burnt the car to the ground with two little kids in the back,his wife was driving and because it was a 2 door could not get to them in time to get them out.
one reason i will never have a gas cylinder inside a vehicle.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:27 pm

Tony, that is sad story. Doug, you do know we will not only expect your injection system to work, give nice emissions but also more grunt