Brumby build with a difference

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:47 pm

Well I am heading down to Perth next weekend to pick up WRXER's Brumby shell that he started to put a WRX motor into.

My plans are to put complete Liberty/Impreza running gear underneath it - crossmembers, shocks, brake, steering, diff, gearbox etc etc.

Hmmm no mention of a motor - that is because I am going to put a Rotary in it

spike · Post by **spike** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:24 pm

been done.............

only in a leone

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:30 pm

spike wrote:been done.............

only in a leone

Cool - I've only ever seen one Rotary mated to Subie AWD and that was a Japanese WRX - could only find photos of the completed car and no info or pics about the build.

Any links to the Leone ??

Had a quick look and could only find a youtube video - and it wasn't 100% confirmed as a rotary. Either way it would only be running the Leone running gear - my plans are bit bigger than that.

Volksconversions in Qld do an adapter plate for rotaries onto the EA series gearboxes but not for the EJ unfortunately

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:44 pm

niterida wrote: no mention of a motor - that is because I am going to put a Rotary in it

A 13B or an 8 cylinder rotary aircraft engine?

make sure there are lots of pictures and writing

TOONGA

spike · Post by **spike** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:52 pm

TOONGA wrote:8 cylinder rotary aircraft engine?

now THAT would be awesome

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:54 pm

TOONGA wrote:A 13B or an 8 cylinder rotary aircraft engine?

make sure there are lots of pictures and writing

TOONGA

haha - 12a, 13b or 20b i'm not fussed which

depends what I can find for the right money when I am ready to buy one.

There will be plenty of photos but it probably won't start for a few months yet - I am still setting up my shed with a rotisserie, welder, more tools etc, plus with Xmas coming up I won't have any spare money

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:55 pm

spike wrote:now THAT would be awesome

Yeah but they are just boring old 4 stroke piston engines.

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:21 pm

Hi Niterida...My eldest son is a mazda rotary freak and he and I have had discussions about this. Of course its very doable and I wish you every success with it. He has a series three RX7 running a 13B turbo and the power is real push back in the seat stuff. The car is a sleeper is very rarely used. The motor was set up by Dysons rotary. Anyone who has been to the Jamboree at Willowbank raceway will have respect for these engines. Good luck with the project..and yes I have seen that leone clip with the rotary setup. Cheers.

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:25 pm

subybrumby wrote: Of course its very doable and I wish you every success with it.

Yeah both motor have a basically central crank, rather than one towards the bottom on 'normal' upright motors so I think it is an ideal swap - very surprised that it doesn't seem to be more popular, especially considering the rotarys lack of torque could be beneficial to the weak old WRX gearbox.

Yeah a late (ish) model 13b turbo would be ideal - with the light weight of the Brumby and AWD grip it shouldn't be too hard to get into the 12s, 11s or even 10sec bracket

Thanks for your encouragement.

1111giles · Post by **1111giles** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:35 pm

Hi, I for one will be very interested to watch this develop and to echo Trevor - I wish you the very best of luck with it - no doubt there will be some interesting technical issues to over come along the way:)

Make sure that your camera works overtime:mrgreen:

Just a couple of thoughts / observations of my own

The mazda rotary is well known for its thirst for oil - does this concern you?

The power/torque curve of these type of engines is about as far away from that of a Boxer 4 as you could possibly get, the result is that you will have a vehicle which maybe good for dragging but not so for its original intended. I take it that you wont be concerned by this change in status?

What does one of these 'lumps' weigh ? if there is a huge difference will you be looking at the front weighting of your finished BrumbyRocket?:mrgreen:

BTW - I do have some insight into the mysterious world of 'Rotary' engines, in that my father has designed a totally new rotary engine dubbed 'RICE' which stands for R otary I nduction & C ompression E ngine.
His design is at the development stage right now and is currently the subject of gas flow analysis research work at Cranfield University (Engine development centre). IF this passes out AOK then we are up and running with it !
But this is the bit thats interesting - its been viewed as a Hydrogen burning engine - and by its design gives a full 4 stroke power cycle every 360 degrees of shaft rotation ! - now that would be an interesting engine swap !

spike · Post by **spike** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:49 pm

1111giles wrote: But this is the bit thats interesting - its been viewed as a Hydrogen burning engine - and by its design gives a full 4 stroke power cycle every 360 degrees of shaft rotation ! - now that would be an interesting engine swap !

rotarys are apparently the best to run with hydrogen, somthing about compression and the heat stored in the combustion chambers not really sure just know you can run rotarys with a compressed hydrogen hose over the inlet (without the fuel hooked up)

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:03 pm

Umm, I'm not an expert but heard most of this from my son plus had his car in my shed here every day for years whilst he lived here. I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. Old mate Wankel apparently built the engine originally as a pump. And that's virtually what they are. The rotor is virtually a triangle with Apex seals on the three extremities. As it moves about its elliptical orbit it creates intake, compression power and a scavenging exhaust effect. Essentially the engine just wants to continue revving because it continues to move in a circular motion and has no reciprocating parts. They appear to use a fair bit of oil because the engine has in fact oil injectors injecting the engine oil into the combustion chambers to help with lubrication..of course this results in the oil being burnt off. A lot of guys do away with this injection system and virtually run on a two stroke mix. The engine itself is very small and compact and can be found transplanted into datto utes etc around here. I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of problems with room as they are quite small and yes, they tend to develop their power at higher revs. It is a real subculture and these rotory nuts are quite dedicated. Not the era I was brought up although I can remember when the early Mazda rotaries hit the scene. Julian (Son) reckons spinners are grinners and crankers are wankers,,an obvious jibe at those of us who have normal engines. Anyway, as I said, they are getting very respectable times at the drags down to low sixes with 8 sec passes quite the norm. I was at the jamboree last august and have been many times before. I would expect that a subaru drive train will have to be pretty tuff to stand the high horsepower being developed at those high revs.

1111giles · Post by **1111giles** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:53 am

Yes Trev, that's all about correct - the description and reason for being as per the wankel.

The Rotary my father has designed is - believe it or not - is as far away from a Wankel design as is possible !

For obvious reasons of confidentiality I am (although very tempted to) unable to divulge any further information about the RICE engine.

What I will say is that as soon as the project is in a position to to made public I will post up what he has designed etc (but dont hold your breath as it could be a few years down the line before we are at that stage)

Its correct about the ability to run Hydrogen easily in 'rotary's' the RICE engine will of course run other fuels and gasses as well, but the real 'buzz' right now is Hydrogen we are reliably informed, as it would appear that that is where development money is currently being spent to support range extending for electric vehicle's being a good example.

khanacross · Post by **khanacross** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:33 am

there is a brumby in newcastle area with rotary fitted,, goes well apparently ,dont know full details of it ,,,friend of a friend owns it ,,,pm me for his contact details ,,maybe can line up a viewing .... fingers crossed

spike · Post by **spike** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:15 pm

so basically you need racing rotary in a racing subaru

The 6 speed is definatly the way to go, even if people are breaking them with the eg33 turbos

D3V1L · Post by **D3V1L** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:17 pm

theres a red rotary brumby floating around perth already haha

davo

subybrumby · Post by **subybrumby** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:34 pm

We should probably start a new thread on the hydrogen story..there's a fair bit there on that sort of stuff.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:35 pm

spike wrote:The 6 speed is definatly the way to go, even if people are breaking them with the eg33 turbos

Who's breaking them?

FujiFan · Post by **FujiFan** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:49 pm

I read in a rotary book yonks ago, the shape that the rotor moves in is called a "Peritrochoid". A bit like "Trochoid" type oil pumps such as those in the EA series engines.

niterida · Post by **niterida** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:25 pm

1111giles wrote:The mazda rotary is well known for its thirst for oil - does this concern you?

The power/torque curve of these type of engines is about as far away from that of a Boxer 4 as you could possibly get, the result is that you will have a vehicle which maybe good for dragging but not so for its original intended. I take it that you wont be concerned by this change in status?

What does one of these 'lumps' weigh ? if there is a huge difference will you be looking at the front weighting of your finished BrumbyRocket?:mrgreen:

BTW - I do have some insight into the mysterious world of 'Rotary' engines, in that my father has designed a totally new rotary engine dubbed 'RICE' which stands for R otary I nduction & C ompression E ngine.
His design is at the development stage right now and is currently the subject of gas flow analysis research work at Cranfield University (Engine development centre). IF this passes out AOK then we are up and running with it !
But this is the bit thats interesting - its been viewed as a Hydrogen burning engine - and by its design gives a full 4 stroke power cycle every 360 degrees of shaft rotation ! - now that would be an interesting engine swap !

Oil consumption ? Nothing like the smell of 2 stroke. I am a mad 2 stroke and rotary fan. Its not going to be an every day car so fuel and oil consumption is not an issue.

Power and torque is riight where I like it - up high in the revs. Great for a performance vehicle which is exactly what it will be - basically want a circuit car with a bit of drag ability.

Weight of one of these is bugger all - probably lighter than a WRX motor and possibly even lighter or about the same as an EA motor ?? Anyone know the wieghts of these ?

If your dad is looking for a car to test his engine I will gladly let him use mine as long as I get to keep an engine afterwards and as long as it puts out 1000hp hahahaha

The AUSubaru.com.au Forums

Brumby build with a difference

Brumby build with a difference - I GIVE UP !!