The Brumbyrunner Project

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:16 pm

yeah any plans for this year boss? I could do with a Finke fix this june..

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:28 pm

Dunno if you follow the rules for off-road racing, but a couple of years ago CAMS subtlety reworded the regulations regarding the Extreme 4WD class (the old class 8 ).

Basically, you're now allowed to run a rear-mount or mid-mount engine in any 4WD regardless of how it was originally designed and manufactured.

This has made a huge difference to the types of cars people are building for this class.

Current Aust. champion Colin Hunter has had a full tube frame buggy built in the US and will debut it at Hyden at Easter time for the first round of the AORC. It has a mid-mount (in front of the rear axle) turbo V6, IFS, IRS, 37" tyres and similar wheel travel to a buggy. It's wearing fibreglass Dodge Ram panels so it looks like a production 4WD (sort of).

Also debuting at Hyden is a similar buggy built in WA. I must have been following the build for 4 or 5 years now and it's truly a work of art with as many hand-made custom components as Colin's car. It's also independent all round and mid-mount but V8 instead. It's now wearing Chev truck panels to comply with the "looking like a production 4WD" rule too.

Now, not to jinx them, but these new 4WDs are going to be outright contenders for the AORC not just decimate Extreme 4WD class. They've relegated the old 4WDs like Garland's Triton & Chapman's Pajero to the scrap heap. Maybe not straight away, but once they get the new-car bugs sorted out, they'll be the cars to watch.

riksta · Post by **riksta** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:45 pm

so were dose that leave you and your off road racing Brumby?

Will you still race it as it is, or are you going to biuld a new buggy type Brumby to take them on?

I would to see that build.

Rik.

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:42 pm

I'm going to wait and see Rik.

I've barely touched on what that Brumby is capable of. Every time we go out (after further tweaks) it gets exponentially faster. You just have to watch the in-car footage to see that.

But as anybody running a business will attest, the biggest cost when racing is not the car or the transport or the repairs, it's the time you spend not concentrating on your core business. If I had the time I'd probably race against these guys anyway because I love racing. But with the class 8 shake-up it's easy too just wait and see how it all plays out.

I won't be watching from the sidelines though. I've been offered a co-drive in a Performance 2WD class ute. Jim is the crew-chief so he'll be in the thick of it still. If you're interested I'll post up some info as we go. At this stage well be doing one or two north Qld rounds to get things sorted out before Finke.

spike · Post by **spike** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:26 pm

yeah the rules get a little confusing
hopfully the rules will change again and these buggies will be moved to class 1 where they belong.
im not sure what the corner weights of the your car is so maybe a new engine is in line? a H6 turbo should push the power through and the only thing then that the car doesnt have is rear mounted engine

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:23 pm

You never cease to amaze me Spike, and here you are on my build thread.

I realise you're only a kid and, judging by your inability to successfully grasp the fundamentals of written English, must have had a difficult education. Therefore, I try not to be too critical and take you to task on every utterance because I'm sure you mean well and we all have to start somewhere.

So....what rules are you confused about?

spike · Post by **spike** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:52 pm

yeah englinsh isnt where i excelled, engineering was =)

not really that confused they are open to interpritation and have been interprited lots of ways like the fact i can take a subaru forester for ofroad and bolt a turbo to it but still have it called production, bad example cause the cars came with turbo but somthing like a holden captiva (theyre 4wd NA right?) i can bolt a turbo to one and still have it run in the production class

these rules will either go away or a 3rd class of offroad will be built like extreme, performance and production or somthing. class 1 was and is for the ultimate contenders, it wasnt till 2 years ago that any 4wd in the world won an outright offroad excluding rally raids

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:35 am

No Spike, you cannot bolt a turbo to a non-factory turbo 4WD and compete in Performance 4WD class. It's spelled out very clearly. No interpretation (note spelling) necessary. Are there any other rules that confuse you?

CAMS has already explored the merits of a new "Unlimited" class for these non-car derived 4WDs (and maybe for a Pro-Class buggy with car panels too) but until we get some more contenders it's not viable. Why have a class with 2 or 3 cars at the most? The rule book says you must have at least 6 to define a new class or sub-class.

You could possibly brush up on your knowledge of offroadracing history too. Let me give you an example.
In 1982 (29 years ago) Paul Zacka won the Australian Championship in a 4WD Rodeo, then in 1987 (24 years ago) Les Siviour did it in a Patrol and finally in 1998 (13 years ago) Fabio Zarfati won it in a SWB Pajero.
So you see, racing and winning in a 4WD is hardly a new idea.

spike · Post by **spike** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:02 pm

brumbyrunner wrote:No Spike, you cannot bolt a turbo to a non-factory turbo 4WD and compete in Performance 4WD class. It's spelled out very clearly

under the 2010 rules the inlet tract was free from the manifold (air flow meter maybe) and from the exhaust ports back was free. thus just randomly hanging a turbo there and feeding it into the manifold is perfectly legal

the cams manual, and all racing manuals are open to interpritaion and not get called cheating

brumbyrunner wrote:Les Siviour did it in a Patrol

forgot that one

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:31 pm

From the CAMS manual SR3.1 (Production 4WD class in the Offroad Specific Regs.).

All modifications are forbidden unless expressly authorised by these Specific Regulations (SR) and where appropriate, the General Regulations (GR).

Which means that unless turbocharging is authorised (and it's not) you can't do it.

It goes further in the last paragraph on the engine (SR 3.1.6) to ensure raising boost pressure is covered but the use of the word "originally" should leave no doubt about non-standard turbo fitment.

If a vehicle is originally fitted with a turbocharger or a supercharger, the induction pressure is free, as are the control devices.

So even after all that do you think these statements allows fitment of a turbo?

the air filter and associated fittings leading to the inlet manifold are free

The exhaust system is free.

Fortunately, if you're ever in doubt or confused again, you can always ask CAMS for a definitive answer on a technical query that may not be covered and get the answer in writing. Be an expensive exercise to build something that you couldn't race.

You also ignored the legendary Zooma Zacka and Fabio Zarfati.

spike · Post by **spike** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:30 pm

[quote="brumbyrunner"]
Fortunately, if you're ever in doubt or confused again, you can always ask CAMS for a definitive answer on a technical query that may not be covered and get the answer in writing. Be an expensive exercise to build something that you couldn't race.
[quote]

CORRECT =)
and after reading these rules i put it to one of the highest scrutineers in south australia and got a reply simply saying (unable to quote, have it in my back pages of emails)

good interpritation of the rules and he could not see how it would be illegal, possible imoral and there is a chance you will be done under the bringing the sport into disrepute on which grounds he would personally stand up for me

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:01 am

Hey, if you can get it scrutineered and log booked then go for it.

If they let you compete, I concede. We need more competitors in class 7.

damo666 · Post by **damo666** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:37 am

spike wrote: the cams manual, and all racing manuals are open to interpritaion and not get called cheating

Spike, i take it this scritineer person is a friend? Any chance he was just humouring you?

Whilst i have never been involved in offroad 4WD, I've been rallying for 10+ years around the country, and rally scrutineers take the same view as Brumbyrunner - the CAMS manual very simply lists the only modifications that you are allowed to do, not what modifications you are not allowed to do, as many people try to read it (Dont think "it dosent say I cant", think, "does it say I can?").

If it does not say "you are allowed to fit a turbo", you are not allowed to fit a turbo. There is no room for interpretation!!!

The excerpt Brumbyrunner has copied from the CAMS manual very clearly states this - All modifications are forbidden unless expressly authorised by these Specific Regulations.

Bradenrm · Post by **Bradenrm** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:35 pm

Read whole thread. time for sleep. awesome work!

I'm as confused as a fat kid with a salad though, are you still allowed to run the brumby?

AshR · Post by **AshR** » Sat May 12, 2012 6:12 pm

Man this was an awesome read... but Bradenrm, doesn't look like anything has happened with the Brumby since Jan last year.

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:34 pm

If todays comedy of errors and bad luck comes to fruition then this thread will hopefully see a revival and I will sleep well tomorrow night

AshR · Post by **AshR** » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:41 pm

How did they go in Fink?

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:58 am

Bradenrm wrote:
I'm as confused as a fat kid with a salad though, are you still allowed to run the brumby?

lol

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:56 pm

We prologued 3rd in class running on 2 cylinders. 50th out of 83 nominated. Changed injectors this afternoon and fixed the problem. All set for tomorrow now.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:49 pm

brumbyrunner wrote:We prologued 3rd in class running on 2 cylinders. 50th out of 83 nominated. Changed injectors this afternoon and fixed the problem. All set for tomorrow now.

Best of luck tomorrow! Looking forward to some pics!

Cheers

Bennie