Monster wagon

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:00 pm

Yeah at the moment it's just the RS turbo gearbox (modified to RWD), going to single piece tailshaft, going to 4.111 CLSD. Still stock diff mounting and L series driveshafts, so not game to drop skids in the dry for fear of smashing the rear end to bits with axel tramp etc. Fun as hell in the wet though :)

User avatar
El_Freddo
Master Member
Posts: 12487
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Bridgewater Vic
Contact:

Post by El_Freddo » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:30 am

Will this 6 inch lift ever see the roads/tracks less travelled??

Still looks like a beast though!

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
Image
El Freddo's Pics - El_Freddo's youtube

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:57 am

Yeah it did a bit of offroading in the pines, and a fair bit around the back of the estate where I live not that long after the lift kit went in. But she's yet to see any offroading in the current configuration, mostly due to being rwd.
One day.

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Sun May 08, 2011 11:13 am

Okay so I pulled the rear housing of the gearbox out, and yep, the drop gears are smashed.

Image
Image
Image
Image


So before I just simply replace them, I want to see what can be done to try and improve things in there with a view to this not happening again in the near future.
The trouble is I'm putting 100% of the drive through these gears via a locked centre, rather than most of it through the front diff and only some (via lsd centre) to the rear.
Seems a little strange though as I hadn't heard of this happening to other people who've run these AWD turbo gearboxes in RWD before. I even know of a guy named Scott in WA who has a gearbox exactly like this in an L series, which is basically a dedicated burnout car!
I didn't do one burnout (on a dry road), or one launch or really any hard driving at all. I do have big 29" tyres which I suppose adds extra load but I still wasn't expecting this breakage.
Two theories though.
1 - I had the centre welded so it's locked - You can see by the discolouration. It's possible that the weight of this unit is having a flywheel type of effect on the drop gears and adding extra load from the added momentum. (note that it was separated when welded so the gears themselves weren't effected by heat).
2 - I'm not sure of the kms on the gearbox, but it is an old original aussie RS box from circa `92. The shifting action is good and there aren't any funny sounds, but I suppose these drop gears that broke could have had a pre-existing weakness and I was just unlucky. Normally in standard AWD mode it would have gone undetected and probably lasted ages.

So to try and address both of these issues this is what I'm doing.
1 - Obtaining an MRT spool to replace the centre diff entirely. This is just a single piece of machined metal specifically made to convert AWD boxes to RWD.
2 - The MRT spool is only to suit late model rear housings so I'll have to source on of these too - I'm told this should bolt on still. This means hopefully I should get a much lower kms and newer drop gear set.

I suppose another thing would be to look into billet gears, but that would be too expensive.

Aiming to get the bits and bolt them back into the car this week. Then I'll charge the battery and blow out the cobwebs (litterally) to test it out.

User avatar
D3V1L
Senior Member
Posts: 2661
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:00 am
Location: perth, wa

Post by D3V1L » Sun May 08, 2011 12:14 pm

chop chop still waiting hahaa


davo
no more subarus


[/SIZE] [/color][/B][/color][/SIZE][/color]http://community.webshots.com/user/D3V1L9



User avatar
El_Freddo
Master Member
Posts: 12487
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Bridgewater Vic
Contact:

Post by El_Freddo » Sun May 08, 2011 6:19 pm

Have you thought about using a dedicated rear wheel drive gearbox for this setup?

I ask this as I've been reading about the W series toyota transmission adaptors that are in the process of being fabricated in the US. I believe they're close to production at $US300 a piece plus the throw out bearing setup then the matching shifter setup. It would probably be the best setup for the divorced transfer setup you're using, no drop gears to worry about!

The link starts at page 15 with some pics of the first one that's been made up. This thread is kind of like Toonga's build up thread ;) With the US dollar under the AU dollar now would be the best time to jump in on this if you decide to go with this setup...

Food for thought or spanner in the works by bennie :rolleyes:

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
Image
El Freddo's Pics - El_Freddo's youtube

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Sun May 15, 2011 5:14 pm

That's pretty cool ElFreddo, thanks for the link. If it's 300 bucks it's worth considering! I shall keep an eye on that one but for now I'll see how it goes. I wonder if the toyota stud pattern is anything like the Mazda one. I've got 3 Mazda 5speeds sitting around already lol.

Got the rwd spool and late model drop gears with matching rear housing.
Here they are assembled waiting to be bolted in.

Image

Put it back together, took her on a ~45km trip. Works fine again.

One day I'll get some time to do some more general strengthening/bracing and fit the front diff and transfer case.

User avatar
RSR 555
Elder Member
Posts: 6951
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:42 am
Location: ATM... stuck in Rockingham

Post by RSR 555 » Mon May 16, 2011 4:30 am

Drew.. from my memory, Scott's L sedan was (maybe still) running import gearbox (4.11) and these boxes and also some of the later WRX boxes didn't have the drop down transfer gearset like the the Aussie RS and early Aussie WRX boxes have. The early Aussie RS and WRX boxes had a 3.9 (going off memory here) front ratio and then dropped to a 3.545 ratio on the rear. This is maybe why there is extra strain on the smaller gear and caused it to fracture.

BTW.. love the spool piece :mrgreen: I remember the guy who brought my 1UZ converted Hilux Surf, had a green Brumby (show car/drag car/burnout car) and he made his RWD conversion from a set of CV joint cups and never had any issues.
You know you are getting old when the candles on your birthday cake start to cost more than the cake itself.

RSR Performance
Home of the 'MURTAYA' in Oz
Subaru Impreza WRX based Sportscar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Disclaimer: Not my website but hyperlink here to Subaru workshop manuals

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Mon May 16, 2011 2:09 pm

Yeah but whether it drops the ratio or not, these gears are still required and those later model gearboxes do have them, they just don't change the ratio - their main function is to change the direction of rotation of the output where the tailshaft goes on. At least that's my understanding from chatting to Doug while looking at my rear casing pulled apart.
Rally cars don't have these gears, the output just comes straight out without going through these gears, but their rear diffs are designed to rotate the other direction.
I spoke to Scott (his L was at Doug's workshop on Saturday) - his box is running a slightly different locked setup to mine. He still has the front diff and stubs connected, although no front driveshafts, and instead of welding the centre diff, his has been replaced with a combination of part of a CV cup and some welds.
He remembered, actually he has smashed the drop gears once in the past, but mostly just does rear driveshafts and the occasional diff.

Ideally I need a propper RWD gearbox but we'll see how this goes.

User avatar
RSR 555
Elder Member
Posts: 6951
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:42 am
Location: ATM... stuck in Rockingham

Post by RSR 555 » Tue May 17, 2011 11:11 am

Yeah sorry Andrew, I should have worded that better. They do have the transfer gears, they just don't drop down like the RS boxes do. So the gearset in the transfer case have the same size gears (equally splitting the torque). Scott's L is on the extreme side of the kinda pressures that anyone will ever see on a 4 bolt gearbox. I'm pretty confident you'd never put your L through those kind of conditions.

There are ways to make your box/gearsets stronger but the money you would be spending, you'd be better off buying a larger 4x4 gearbox.
You know you are getting old when the candles on your birthday cake start to cost more than the cake itself.

RSR Performance
Home of the 'MURTAYA' in Oz
Subaru Impreza WRX based Sportscar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Disclaimer: Not my website but hyperlink here to Subaru workshop manuals

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Tue May 17, 2011 11:29 am

These gears I have now I *think* are just 1:1 ratio. At least I would assume so. They are from a later model gearbox, I even had to swap to the matching later model rear housing as they didn't fit into the original Aussie RS one (original one had snap rings etc, later one doesn't and the gears are slightly different shape). I think only the Aussie RS had the weird 3.54 ratio rear diff so any other gearbox wouldn't actually change the ratio with these gears.
Hopefully they are a bit more resilient from this, also from being later model and lower kms (although strangely Doug is offering me no warranty on them in this application, HA!).

That's right his is probably more extreme application to mine, although, imagine the pressures I'd be putting them through in this situation - boggy beach sand driving, on boost with EJ20turbo, 2.27:1 low range with locked centre engaged. I think these gears will still definitely be the weak point in the driveline.

Just have to play it by ear now.

User avatar
RSR 555
Elder Member
Posts: 6951
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:42 am
Location: ATM... stuck in Rockingham

Post by RSR 555 » Tue May 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Yeah.. if you or Doug fitted the later rear gearset then you would have needed to change the rear housing, another reason is due to the centre diff won't match.

Early WRXs had the same box as the Aussie RS.. I know this because I'm using the early WRX running gear for Murtie.

I'm going to be running similar setup to you.. so we'll see how mine goes too :mrgreen:
You know you are getting old when the candles on your birthday cake start to cost more than the cake itself.

RSR Performance
Home of the 'MURTAYA' in Oz
Subaru Impreza WRX based Sportscar
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Disclaimer: Not my website but hyperlink here to Subaru workshop manuals

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Tue May 17, 2011 8:29 pm

I fitted it :) but yeah it's supposedly later model than the RS and was quite different, requiring the housing to be swapped too. Yeah the centre diff looked like it wouldn't fit, and the RWD spool I bought supposedly only suits the later model gear shafts too.
What setup are you going to be running specifically? Is this for the RSR offroader?

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:19 pm

Still using the car daily for work covering quite a few kms atm.
Here she is parked in West Perth a couple of days ago for a client meeting.

Image


There's been a bit of a thud developing when taking up slack in the driveline, ie just taking off from standstill etc.
I suspected main diff hanger bush (the one on the forward part of the diff) as I've experienced this before and sure enough, the rubber had disintegrated a fair bit and it was just flogging around making the thud noise. I guess RWD only takes it's toll on this bit.
I'd had a spare diff hanger sitting there for a while which I got from Brendan ages ago, it has a very very solid red bush custom fitted to it. Doesn't look like it will ever wear out.

Also the rear suspension in my wagon has been getting pretty slack lately. It was a pair of KYB shocks and Kings springs which I'd bought brand new but this was quite a few years ago now and the car saw a lot of 4x4ing on them back then. Looks like I've worn them out.
I've had the set I was running in the RX Sedan (exactly the same kind) sitting in the garage ever since I sold the RX. They were basically still brand new, didn't see much use and it was only on the road too. These aren't the slightly longer 2wd ones but seem to suit well enough.

Put the diff hanger and the shocks/springs in early this morning. Big difference :)
Handles even better around corners now with the new shocks/springs and the diff bush fixed the thud straight up.

I've got a few spare moustache bars sittings around too, I really should get around to zapping up a double one at some stage, still just running the standard one but it's still completely straight somehow!

User avatar
Dann
Junior Member
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 6:39 pm
Location: Perth

Post by Dann » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:54 pm

looking gwd there, haha really stands out now :)
Cheers,
Dann
http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/showthrea ... t=dann%27s

Looking for:
- LSD diff

Image
IMG_0957 by Dann_Evans, on Flickr

User avatar
guyph_01
Senior Member
Posts: 2515
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:24 am
Location: Wilson WA

Post by guyph_01 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:32 pm

Nice Pic there andrew.
Civic springs i got are KHFS-58
The project, EJ22 --->>> EJ25 Quad CAM:D touring wagon
Image
Thinking of going on holidays on a little paradise island, Check out http://www.dodolidays.com

User avatar
El_Freddo
Master Member
Posts: 12487
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Bridgewater Vic
Contact:

Post by El_Freddo » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:38 pm

Great pic mate!

Think Ruby Scoo's a little short now :(

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
Image
El Freddo's Pics - El_Freddo's youtube

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:42 pm

Thanks Guyph, I might have to get some of those. Dispite my bashing in of the rear guards as much as I think I can without butchering the car too much, I still found it scrubbing abit a couple of days ago when I was being a hoodlum getting it sideways around a corner.
El Freddo, heh yeah perhaps, but think how that guy in the green WRX felt :P although height probably is not his objective.

Just spent another 10 mins on the wagon today (yes that's all she gets even on a long weekend!) and finally did something I've never done the whole time I've had the wagon for some reason. Fixed the rediculous negative camber in the rear end! Should have taken before and after pics...but the old "loosen the 3 bolts" idea definitely works.
On either side of the K frame you loosen the 3 bolts that holes one of the trailing arms on and give the arm a few whacks with a mallet to get it to settle. I swear it barely even moved. Tightened the bolts back up and let her back onto the ground. Camber is basically neutral now, mabey even a little positive. Even after a couple of laps around the block it's still holding. Might have to work out something a little more permanent because I bet after a bit of offroading in the future it might return again, happy for now tho!

Think I might take the 4.111 Clutch LSD diff out during the week and swap it for the 4.111 Viscus LSD one I was running in the RX sedan for now. The CLSD one has been whining ever since I first got it years ago (even when it was just an open diff before I put the CLSD centre in), I think the main gears are worn and the whining has been worsening recently.

User avatar
El_Freddo
Master Member
Posts: 12487
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: Bridgewater Vic
Contact:

Post by El_Freddo » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:16 am

Yeah Andrew, I did that rear 3 bolt camber trick - I didn't think it would work, but I had some serious negative camber on the rear end after the lift went in. I first noticed it with the big tyres and it was almost as apparent with the little tyres. About half an hour of stuffing around and I've got them back to 0 degrees offset or there abouts on each side.

Very happy!

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
Image
El Freddo's Pics - El_Freddo's youtube

User avatar
AndrewT
Senior Member
Posts: 4777
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:00 am
Location: WA
Contact:

Post by AndrewT » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:48 pm

The whining Clutch LSD 4.1 diff is out now, standard open 4.1 diff is in (thanks for the supply Guyph).
The rear end doesn't step out wildly when I smoke it around a corner anymore, just does a single pegger :P But on the bright side, no more whining.
I'll put my second CLSD centre into this diff at some stage and then use the whining 4.1 CLSD diff in the front end when I get to that stage. It won't whine in the front end because it only happens under load and only above ~80km/h. I doubt I'll go 80km/h in 4x4, well maybe on the beach.

Post Reply

Return to “AndrewT”