Monster wagon
Small update...
The subframes I made and quickly tack welded together at home are now scheduled for Saturday morning to be blasted together properly by a pro I discovered works in the building next to my work. Will post up pics soon as they are done. Will be bolting them in very shortly afterwards and pressing on with the rest of re-assembly so I can get her driving. Actually maybe not that quickly as I'm flying overseas for a week for work then not long after that again for 2 weeks on holiday. It will happen one day soon!
More crazy ideas...
Despite not even getting her driving yet, I'm already planning the next phase of the "Monster" conversion which will likely involve some more fairly significant "off the road" time spent in the garage....but I'll drive her in the current format for a fair bit first I think, I miss her!
The next phase will involve converting to a "propper" 4x4 driveline. Ie, she will no longer run a Subaru gearbox. Here is basically what it's going to involve in point form;
- The Subaru gearbox and tailshaft will be binned
- The engine crossmember will be bolted back up into the stock standard position
- The engine will sit on the above engine crossember in the stock standard position
- A second engine crossmember (yes) will be installed directly underneath the upper engine crossmember, spaced down 6 inches. This crossmember will have the control arms and steering rack connected to them.
- A "propper" 4x4 gearbox will be bolted to the EJ20turbo motor. The model/donor gearbox is yet to be decided on but at this stage I am looking at Suzuki Vitara V6 ones. This will obviously require an adaptor plate, likely highly customised. This gearbox does not have two front stub axels for any front driveshafts like a Subaru one does. These gearboxes have significantly better low range gearing than any Subaru.
- This 4x4 gearbox will also have a matching transfer case. The transfer case bolts onto the back of the 4x4 gearbox and has two outputs to bolt two tailshafts onto - one tailshaft goes to the front of the car, one to the rear. The transfer case has two gears - a second low range gear which makes it even lower when engaged.
- The rear tailshaft will bolt onto the standard Subaru R160 rear diff (which will be a clutch pack LSD - well, it is already).
- The front tailshaft will bolt onto a second Subaru R160 diff which is facing the other way. This diff will be mounted between the two front engine crossmembers, the Subaru front driveshafts will plug straight into it. I've already measured and this will work without any modification to the front driveshafts (the stubs are the same distance apart as the front ones on an L series gearbox). Nothing to stop me also using a clutch pack LSD for the front end now
This configuration should give me a few pretty good advantages;
- Easy choice of final drive ratio - just change the R160 diffs for 3.7, 3.9, 4.111, 4.444 as a pair
- Front LSD (or even front welded diff if I ever go insane)
- Proper low range gearing in the gearbox, plus even lower when the transfer case low is engaged.
- Strong gearbox, apparently they can withstand quite alot of abuse offroad, even the Suzuki ones.
- Engine no longer dropped 6 inches - should have excellent approach angle and clearance at the front end without a big sump and turbo exhaust manifold in the way.
It's been done quite a few times in the US but from what I can find, everyone just uses EA82 gearboxes and runs them in RWD into a divorced transfer case. I want to go one more step and change the actual gearbox too.
The transfer case should sit perfectly fine up in the transmission tunnel. Some people have made some modifications to the tunnel (cutting, welding) to make room but this is usually for people using massive landcruiser transfer cases etc, I shouldn't have this issue.
So quite a few things still need to be worked out...
- How to adapt the new gearbox to an EJ subrau motor
- How to mount the gearbox and transfer case (custom crossmember no doubt)
- Need to organise custom length tailshafts with the correct couplings at either end
- How to mount second engine crossmember
- How to mount front diff (I'm thinking along the lines of making something out of a Liberty 4x4 rear diff cradle, they look pretty strong compaired to the L series "moustache bar")
This is just an idea at the moment, but seems fairly do-able to me (specially as it has been done lots in the US). I just want to do it better. But as you can see it's now becoming less likely I will be driving the wagon many places other than two/from offroading locations in the future!
PS no I'm not going to "get it engineered" etc etc, that's just silly
The subframes I made and quickly tack welded together at home are now scheduled for Saturday morning to be blasted together properly by a pro I discovered works in the building next to my work. Will post up pics soon as they are done. Will be bolting them in very shortly afterwards and pressing on with the rest of re-assembly so I can get her driving. Actually maybe not that quickly as I'm flying overseas for a week for work then not long after that again for 2 weeks on holiday. It will happen one day soon!
More crazy ideas...
Despite not even getting her driving yet, I'm already planning the next phase of the "Monster" conversion which will likely involve some more fairly significant "off the road" time spent in the garage....but I'll drive her in the current format for a fair bit first I think, I miss her!
The next phase will involve converting to a "propper" 4x4 driveline. Ie, she will no longer run a Subaru gearbox. Here is basically what it's going to involve in point form;
- The Subaru gearbox and tailshaft will be binned
- The engine crossmember will be bolted back up into the stock standard position
- The engine will sit on the above engine crossember in the stock standard position
- A second engine crossmember (yes) will be installed directly underneath the upper engine crossmember, spaced down 6 inches. This crossmember will have the control arms and steering rack connected to them.
- A "propper" 4x4 gearbox will be bolted to the EJ20turbo motor. The model/donor gearbox is yet to be decided on but at this stage I am looking at Suzuki Vitara V6 ones. This will obviously require an adaptor plate, likely highly customised. This gearbox does not have two front stub axels for any front driveshafts like a Subaru one does. These gearboxes have significantly better low range gearing than any Subaru.
- This 4x4 gearbox will also have a matching transfer case. The transfer case bolts onto the back of the 4x4 gearbox and has two outputs to bolt two tailshafts onto - one tailshaft goes to the front of the car, one to the rear. The transfer case has two gears - a second low range gear which makes it even lower when engaged.
- The rear tailshaft will bolt onto the standard Subaru R160 rear diff (which will be a clutch pack LSD - well, it is already).
- The front tailshaft will bolt onto a second Subaru R160 diff which is facing the other way. This diff will be mounted between the two front engine crossmembers, the Subaru front driveshafts will plug straight into it. I've already measured and this will work without any modification to the front driveshafts (the stubs are the same distance apart as the front ones on an L series gearbox). Nothing to stop me also using a clutch pack LSD for the front end now
This configuration should give me a few pretty good advantages;
- Easy choice of final drive ratio - just change the R160 diffs for 3.7, 3.9, 4.111, 4.444 as a pair
- Front LSD (or even front welded diff if I ever go insane)
- Proper low range gearing in the gearbox, plus even lower when the transfer case low is engaged.
- Strong gearbox, apparently they can withstand quite alot of abuse offroad, even the Suzuki ones.
- Engine no longer dropped 6 inches - should have excellent approach angle and clearance at the front end without a big sump and turbo exhaust manifold in the way.
It's been done quite a few times in the US but from what I can find, everyone just uses EA82 gearboxes and runs them in RWD into a divorced transfer case. I want to go one more step and change the actual gearbox too.
The transfer case should sit perfectly fine up in the transmission tunnel. Some people have made some modifications to the tunnel (cutting, welding) to make room but this is usually for people using massive landcruiser transfer cases etc, I shouldn't have this issue.
So quite a few things still need to be worked out...
- How to adapt the new gearbox to an EJ subrau motor
- How to mount the gearbox and transfer case (custom crossmember no doubt)
- Need to organise custom length tailshafts with the correct couplings at either end
- How to mount second engine crossmember
- How to mount front diff (I'm thinking along the lines of making something out of a Liberty 4x4 rear diff cradle, they look pretty strong compaired to the L series "moustache bar")
This is just an idea at the moment, but seems fairly do-able to me (specially as it has been done lots in the US). I just want to do it better. But as you can see it's now becoming less likely I will be driving the wagon many places other than two/from offroading locations in the future!
PS no I'm not going to "get it engineered" etc etc, that's just silly
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
andrew are you drunk??? ahahahahaha..
sounds like a friggin good idea tho! you can be test guinea pig! insane!!!!!
go t mack, go t mack, go t mack!
alex
sounds like a friggin good idea tho! you can be test guinea pig! insane!!!!!
go t mack, go t mack, go t mack!
alex
my07 Outback
my13 Hyundai i45(shhhh)
my02 Gen3 Liberty limited ed.
previously
L-series wagon, LSD, EJ20turbo, 29in tyres, 'wanky wagon'
2000 gen3 outback, lifted, otherwise stock.
my13 Hyundai i45(shhhh)
my02 Gen3 Liberty limited ed.
previously
L-series wagon, LSD, EJ20turbo, 29in tyres, 'wanky wagon'
2000 gen3 outback, lifted, otherwise stock.
- Captain Obvious
- General Member
- Posts: 1292
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: maryborough
andrew have a look at the front diff install on the electric impreza, will same sort if principal http://www.proev.com/index.htm
[SIGPIC]http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/image.php ... 1468060434[/SIGPIC]
The 4x4: 2004 Nissan Navara d22 ZD30 dual cab.
The Wifes car: 2005 SG9 Facelift forester 2.5l auto XS
The 4x4: 2004 Nissan Navara d22 ZD30 dual cab.
The Wifes car: 2005 SG9 Facelift forester 2.5l auto XS
- brumbyrunner
- General Member
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:00 am
- Location: SEQ
Ultimate Subauru forum, possibly not a landcruiser one specifically but they do use a huge variety of them from larger 4wheel drives. I'd paste a little list of suitable donor boxes a guy posted but the forum seems to be down right now.
Nah I still want to keep majority parts Subaru Just gearbox is being chucked for this idea.
Nah I still want to keep majority parts Subaru Just gearbox is being chucked for this idea.
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
Here is some info and photos on the front-end lift.
Some photos of them sitting in cold galv I sprayed on yesterday;
Some photos of them sitting in rust resistant black paint I just sprayed on;
It's probably pretty difficult to picture how they are gonna mount in the car, they are sitting upside down in all those pics.
Here's the last pic again with some crude labels added;
They are made up of the original HiRise blocks, some 3mm thick box section with anti-squash tubing welded in where the bolts go through, some 6mm box section, some 4mm flat bar and some 10mm flat bar.
All parts are bolted together very tight and most parts are now also welded.
They are drenched in gold galv, rust proof paint and I'm also going to hit them with that rubber under-body deadening stuff to try to make them stand out abit less.
They are extremely solid. Should be quite abit stronger than if I just bolted them into the car as they came out of the HiRise box! Everything that has a chance of flexing has a substantial brace welded onto it now. There will also be an additional brace on the lower control arm mount which will brace towards the rear of the car.
Sure they will weigh abit more, but thats why I ditched the EA82 and L series suspension
Likely a fair few weeks before I bolt them into the car as I've got two overseas trips to do now so I won't get much time!
Some photos of them sitting in cold galv I sprayed on yesterday;
Some photos of them sitting in rust resistant black paint I just sprayed on;
It's probably pretty difficult to picture how they are gonna mount in the car, they are sitting upside down in all those pics.
Here's the last pic again with some crude labels added;
They are made up of the original HiRise blocks, some 3mm thick box section with anti-squash tubing welded in where the bolts go through, some 6mm box section, some 4mm flat bar and some 10mm flat bar.
All parts are bolted together very tight and most parts are now also welded.
They are drenched in gold galv, rust proof paint and I'm also going to hit them with that rubber under-body deadening stuff to try to make them stand out abit less.
They are extremely solid. Should be quite abit stronger than if I just bolted them into the car as they came out of the HiRise box! Everything that has a chance of flexing has a substantial brace welded onto it now. There will also be an additional brace on the lower control arm mount which will brace towards the rear of the car.
Sure they will weigh abit more, but thats why I ditched the EA82 and L series suspension
Likely a fair few weeks before I bolt them into the car as I've got two overseas trips to do now so I won't get much time!
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
- stamp_licker
- General Member
- Posts: 1066
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Kallangur.Bris North
As they say a pic is worth a thousand words,well done.Looking forward to pics of em in place.As for transfer cases some early datsun/nissan ones have the same flanges as subaru
attached a couple of pics of transfer case and front diff in subaru.
attached a couple of pics of transfer case and front diff in subaru.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]aka the_postie
Building a hardcore postie:D
Building a hardcore postie:D
Awesome thanks for those pics, I havn't found those yet in my search. I hope I don't end up having to chop the tranny tunnel up that much.
I should have taken some pics when I actually did have the frames in place when I tacked them together but didn't think to.
I should have taken some pics when I actually did have the frames in place when I tacked them together but didn't think to.
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
- stamp_licker
- General Member
- Posts: 1066
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Kallangur.Bris North
hahaha no, this I did not know....it may be too late to bother now but I will chat to you about this next time I see you!
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
Small update;
Subframes are now both bolted into the car. The engine crossmember is bolted up to the frames and the engine / gearbox are mounted on it with two brand new square STI mounts (which are at the factory angle now that I'm using an EJ crossmember). The driver's side Liberty wishbone control arm is bolted up to the driver's side subframe. Ran out of time to bolt up the passenger side.
Next is to make up a gearbox crossmember.
Subframes are now both bolted into the car. The engine crossmember is bolted up to the frames and the engine / gearbox are mounted on it with two brand new square STI mounts (which are at the factory angle now that I'm using an EJ crossmember). The driver's side Liberty wishbone control arm is bolted up to the driver's side subframe. Ran out of time to bolt up the passenger side.
Next is to make up a gearbox crossmember.
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
- brumbyrunner
- General Member
- Posts: 1743
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:00 am
- Location: SEQ
I take it those pics are not of your L Will?stamp_licker wrote:As they say a pic is worth a thousand words,well done.Looking forward to pics of em in place.As for transfer cases some early datsun/nissan ones have the same flanges as subaru
attached a couple of pics of transfer case and front diff in subaru.
Settlement Creek Racing
- stamp_licker
- General Member
- Posts: 1066
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:00 am
- Location: Kallangur.Bris North
Pics as requested;
The car is currently sitting on the back wheels with half a boot-load of crap and the entire roll of new interior carpet and heavy sound deadening I bought for the other car sitting in the back seat. The front end is up on axel stands.
Rear end view (yes I know I gotta fix the negative camber, I think I'll try the "loosen the 3 bolts" trick).
Side angle view.
Currently have 2wd GX struts and springs in, and a very crusty pair of GX brake rotors. Will naturally be replaced with new Outback struts and Kings springs and new rotors.
Passenger side, control arm not bolted up yet.
6" strut top
The car is currently sitting on the back wheels with half a boot-load of crap and the entire roll of new interior carpet and heavy sound deadening I bought for the other car sitting in the back seat. The front end is up on axel stands.
Rear end view (yes I know I gotta fix the negative camber, I think I'll try the "loosen the 3 bolts" trick).
Side angle view.
Currently have 2wd GX struts and springs in, and a very crusty pair of GX brake rotors. Will naturally be replaced with new Outback struts and Kings springs and new rotors.
Passenger side, control arm not bolted up yet.
6" strut top
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
Side view, I slapped a few bolts thru a very temporary gearbox mount (way too low) just so I don't have to use my jack to hold it all up for now.
Yes the body is quite high in relation to the motor. Can almost return to stock L series position for the spare! That's a 14" liberty rim with a new tyre on it.
Front end view.
EZ30 L series - Monsterwagon
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163
https://www.ausubaru.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=26163