Ruby Scoo’s epic build, ten years and counting...

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:36 pm

This is why we're looking at just replacing the head gaskets after checking the head specs:

This is how Dad found the hone marks - with a torch:

I'll start cleaning things up and get an order into Frog to get the ball rolling on this one - New Years in the middle will slow things down a bit.

I'm looking at Paul for his thoughts on this one, I know Dad's good with engines etc but I want to get this right as I don't want to be doing this again in the next two to five years etc etc. Others feel free to chime in too (Tambox?)

Cheers

Bennie

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:03 pm

El_Freddo wrote:The heads took some work to remove after the head bolts were removed. I couldn't see anything obvious. Dad was looking for a cracked head - didn't find one but we found some suspect areas on the lower side of the passenger's head, the one under the coolant leak in the crossover pipe. Here we can see a tiny carbon trace into the coolant passages as indicated, the photo doesn't do it justice:

Hard to see any spots where the gasket had let go. I thinking it was just a slight leak (after re-reading that you had little bubbles) and maybe a bottle of seal-up would have got you going. This is never a permanent fix but I know cars that have slight leaks and gone on for years without doing the gaskets.

I've never seen any Subaru cracked heads (other than the standard little crack that comes between the valves in the EA82), as Subaru seem to use good quality aluminum in theirs.

El_Freddo wrote:This is how Dad found the hone marks - with a torch:

Using a torch definitely helps with taking pics and looking at this, I'd use this block again but reading your statement below, I'd say 2 to 5 years is a large range to say if this engine would last. I'd say for sure you'd get another couple of years out of it but couldn't push it for 5. If this was me, I would buy another cheap (but known condition) EJ22 engine and put this in your car. Then over the next 6 months, build your original engine into a good rebuilt engine. This way you put the new engine in and have the other as a spare backup.

Also I'd like to add, that you must change your coolant. The one your are currently using is causing your metal pipe to rust and leave the red/rusty iron stains in your water jackets. Stick with Subaru coolant.. you'll thank me in the future

El_Freddo wrote:but I want to get this right as I don't want to be doing this again in the next two to five years etc etc.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:28 pm

RSR 555 wrote: Also I'd like to add, that you must change your coolant. The one your are currently using is causing your metal pipe to rust and leave the red/rusty iron stains in your water jackets. Stick with Subaru coolant.. you'll thank me in the future

I've heard so many stories of how good genuine Subaru coolant is I figure for something that only gets done every 3 yrs the extra cost isnt much.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:19 pm

NachaLuva wrote:I've heard so many stories of how good genuine Subaru coolant is I figure for something that only gets done every 3 yrs the extra cost isnt much.

Subaru Green Coolant is guaranteed for 50,000kms or 2 years (which ever comes first) but personally, I like to change every 100,000kms as it's much easier to do when changing timing belts and it seems to last the distance without any trouble.

Subaru Blue Coolant is guarranteed for 150,000kms or 6 years (which ever comes first) but I would still change this at 100,000kms with the belts.

If the car is the older models, i.e. L.Series, MY, etc.. with the bass/copper radiators, then I use the Tectaloy Xtra Cool Gold concentrate 1 litre bottle (complete bottle) and fill the rest up with demineralized water.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:38 pm

RSR 555 wrote:Using a torch definitely helps with taking pics and looking at this, I'd use this block again but reading your statement below, I'd say 2 to 5 years is a large range to say if this engine would last. I'd say for sure you'd get another couple of years out of it but couldn't push it for 5. If this was me, I would buy another cheap (but known condition) EJ22 engine and put this in your car. Then over the next 6 months, build your original engine into a good rebuilt engine. This way you put the new engine in and have the other as a spare backup.

I got 5 years out of this one so far - it's got about 220k km on it now, I don't see why I couldn't get another 5 years out of it if I look after it...

RSR 555 wrote:Also I'd like to add, that you must change your coolant. The one your are currently using is causing your metal pipe to rust and leave the red/rusty iron stains in your water jackets. Stick with Subaru coolant.. you'll thank me in the future

I think this was the result of the water pump leaking for the previous owner of this engine - I found it had water in it. And the reason why I purchased it was because the clutch was FRIED big time! It was that bad that I got another flywheel before I took it home...

RSR 555 wrote:If the car is the older models, i.e. L.Series, MY, etc.. with the bass/copper radiators, then I use the Tectaloy Xtra Cool Gold concentrate 1 litre bottle (complete bottle) and fill the rest up with demineralized water.

So since I have a brass/copper heater core and currently the same type of radiator I should stick with the Techalloy Anti Freeze, Anti Boil?

I've roughly scrapped up the mating faces today to remove the bulk of the old HG, ordered a new set of HGs from Frog and a new set of seals from my local - front crank and cams, rear main

Going with a new belt as well.

Looking forward to putting this back together.

Cheers

Bennie

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:10 am

El_Freddo wrote:I got 5 years out of this one so far - it's got about 220k km on it now, I don't see why I couldn't get another 5 years out of it if I look after it...

So 5 years ago you fitted new head gaskets after it was over heated back then? I like to hope you get another 5 years out of it but after engines have got hot, then they tend to have weaker rings. I'm not trying to be negative but more to the point of not getting your hopes up. I would do the same and fit new gaskets and run it but I have lots of spares lying around.

El_Freddo wrote:I think this was the result of the water pump leaking for the previous owner of this engine - I found it had water in it. And the reason why I purchased it was because the clutch was FRIED big time! It was that bad that I got another flywheel before I took it home...

Ok.. I see

El_Freddo wrote:So since I have a brass/copper heater core and currently the same type of radiator I should stick with the Techalloy Anti Freeze, Anti Boil?

I would continue to use Tectaloy AF/AB coolant until you fully rebuild the engine and/or change the radiator setup

El_Freddo wrote:I've roughly scrapped up the mating faces today to remove the bulk of the old HG, ordered a new set of HGs from Frog and a new set of seals from my local - front crank and cams, rear main Going with a new belt as well.

Sounds like a good plan. Might also pay to buy some new inlet manifold gaskets and water cross pipe o'rings off Andy too

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:08 pm

RSR 555 wrote: If the car is the older models, i.e. L.Series, MY, etc.. with the bass/copper radiators, then I use the Tectaloy Xtra Cool Gold concentrate 1 litre bottle (complete bottle) and fill the rest up with demineralized water.

hadnt thought of that...interesting article here:

http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/-- ... itical.pdf

"If a flushing machine has been used to service other brand vehicles with copper radiators, a chemical reaction between copper ions and Genuine Subaru Coolant may occur. This could also cause future clogging of the radiator"

So it seems Subaru coolant is a big no-no for copper radiators

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:33 pm

That's really interesting - Even if I run an alloy radiator I'll still have a brass copper heater core - same as the factory setup...

Paul, I floor tested the engine to check for head gasket leaks (and to test out my wiring cut down effort). None were apparent and with 127k km on the clock back then I was confident the engine was good. I don't think this engine has been over heated badly other than the crap I've put it through.

I forgot to mention that I've also ordered the inlet manifold gaskets and those crossover pipe O rings too. It'd be a waste not to do them. I'll also be doing a number of radiator hoses while I'm at it.

Cheers

Bennie

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:35 pm

I believe this just to a warning to cover their backsides, as I've used Subaru Coolant on Libertys with brass/copper radiators without any issues.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:25 pm

So how do I swap the Liberty tie bar into the L series as I'd like to run the Liberty radiator? (question from PMs with RSR555) - thought it might be good to share the response publicly rather than behind the scenes if it's all good with you Paul.

Cheers

Bennie

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:00 pm

Good to see you are going to replace those hoses, they are past their use by.
With EJ motors it is a good idea to check the block for being flat, especially around the rear cylinders, getting them hot can twist/move things a bit.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:14 pm

I'll check that out Tambox - thanks for the tip

Cheers

Bennie

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:32 am

Just reading Nico's thread on RSLiberty.org (the STi Leone sedan), he recently grabbed a 1988 XT6 radiator and says its the same size and mounting points as his EA82T radiator, same outlet and fill cap location radiator but has 2 cores and EJ sized outlets. Could be something worth considering? No idea on price or supply in Aus though.

http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/sho ... URBO/page3

My L series has a Liberty radiator in it by the way if you want to see one fitted.

Post by **TOONGA** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:56 am

The XT6 radiator works well but it isn't a direct fit or at least it wasn't into my vortex. (which was an EA82T) It is the same working dimesions but in my vortex the bottom mount holes and top bolt holes were different. Perhaps the later XT6 radiators were changed.

As well; while the inlet and outlet pipes are 38mm, both pipes are angled up to deal with the placement of the motor in the XT6. I had to modify the bottom hose and top hose so they didn't kink causing flow restriction.

I think Bennies 3 core purpose built radiator should still be doing the job, unless he has put a branch through it and not told us

TOONGA

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:53 pm

Radiator flow rates vs water pump flow rates can get complicated.
Much dyno testing has shown if the radiator is too big, the flow rate is confused with inner radiator flow loops of hot coolant looping insde the excess water passages.
There is a reason radiaitors were designed to suit vehicles, a % increase will improve things, but if you go to far, it is pointless, or worse.

Then we get into water pump cavitation, but thats another story.

Cooling systems are complicated, but as long as the basics are good, you are in the ball park.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:02 pm

TOONGA wrote:I think Bennies 3 core purpose built radiator should still be doing the job, unless he has put a branch through it and not told us

The three core would still work - there's a couple of places weeping - like the plug on the side of it that I still don't know why it was put there in the first place. It's leaked for a long time now and I'm over it!

When I pulled this radiator out I also found another place in the core where it's been weeping from - where the core and end tank meets. Dunno which row it's from or if it's worth repairing.

I'm sitting on the fence trying to decide if I go with an XT6 radiator - I can get one for $269 which I think is pretty good. From what I can see of these pics that angle up shouldn't be hard to deal with - it's got to be better than dealing with a stock L series radiator (lower outlet) - pics borrowed from Nico's GL10 STi build <- insane amount of money spent there:

The other reason for moving to a 2 core over a 3 core is space. After talking to tambox about the above mentioned issues with large radiators that could be another factor. The space is the major reason - without the extra "gap" between the radiator and the front of the EJ I can't run good thermo fans. If I can claim back 5mm with the use of a 2 core radiator I'll be laughing. I originally wanted a 2 core but the mob that made the 3 core only did single or triple core units. I should have shopped around... Also I went with the copper/brass unit for repairability out bush. I've not come into a need for that so I'm going to go with the alloy radiator (hoping this xt6 unit is alloy) as it's more efficient in displacing heat over the brass/copper unit.

Toonga, have you got pics of your xt6 radiator fitment? I'm keen to see how steep these angles are.

As for the build up - I've learnt that doing head gaskets at the drop of a hat over the christmas/new year period is the worst timing possible, namely due to places being closed/important people enjoying well earned holidays/family or social commitments... Now waiting on parts. In other news the faces of the deck and the heads are all flat to a metal ruler's straight edge. I thought I'd see some sort of warpage. Pretty happy with that.

Also, if you're going to tint your windows, pay a professional to do the job! It's a PITA and I've got a few things that aren't right that I'll have to live with.

Regards

Bennie

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:06 pm

If you look on the tube, it will show you how to tint windows properly.
Fairly simple, if you own a hair dryer.
Plus a $60 roll will allow plenty of practice.

So hows the engine look?
Block flat?
Carefull with the cheap gasket sets, the gaskets are fairly good, but have had a lot of reports about oil seals failing.

The other thing I didn't mention to you are air pockets in big radiators, again caused by pump flow rate vs radiator area.
But a 2 core aluminium sounds good.
Now that you have A/C.

taza · Post by **taza** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:34 pm

I tried to tint my Foz windows 3 times, ****ed up all 3 times. Pay someone and be done with it. I got the darkest legal tint all round for $400 on special. Keeps the car 4x cooler on those hot days. Just make sure its good quality tint like 3M or similar.

Keen to see your choice of radiators...

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:15 pm

Ok, question about sealing that little plug on the back of the head on the passenger's head can be found here.

The engine is finally going back together slowly now that I'm back at M&D's - but it's too bloody hot and with the threat of fires we've been taking it pretty easy. I wasn't around to see it yesterday but one flared up behind our neighbours place, and since we're backed onto bushland it's a big thing. Last bushfire was in 2003 and no back burning has occurred since then. I wish the best to everyone and their families that are confronted by the fires - stay safe!

I've also picked up a new liberty radiator - going to go down that road after seeing a few pics of other L's with them fitted without cutting the lower support panel. I'll have pics of how that will be done.

Can't wait to have Ruby Scoo back on the black top and offroad again. I just hope all this effort has been worth it in the long run!

Cheers

Bennie

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:05 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Ok, question about sealing that little plug on the back of the head on the passenger's head can be found here.

Why does your passengers head have a plug on the back? Does she know its there? Is it painful?

Can't wait to have Ruby Scoo back on the black top and offroad again. I just hope all this effort has been worth it in the long run!

Yeah, cant wait to head out again, you with your sweetened up engine & flash drivetrain & me with my muddies & rear pLSD...you'll have no probs pulling me out lol