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I'm doing am going to do a EJ20t conversion on my brumby,the half cut I have is auto AWD. I have no experience with offroading so I am unsure if the single range auto awd would be a disadvantge over the dual range manual. I plan to do some mild beach and bush driveing. Any advise would be appreciated.

for me.. i've driven automatics, they do well off roads but in some areas you will find that you wish used dual range low gearing in some situations.

I think low range (dual range) is better off than automatics, specially going down hill - you will need to brake more often than dual range where dual range will help you to slow down....
Cheers
AP

auto rules on the beach. no question

auto is much more useable uphill in the bush. you can gently ease on power to climb over obstacles. in some instances though the tall gearing can mean you run out of puff.. but this is generally on the tougher tracks.

descending in the bush manual has the advantage. an auto gives you bugger all engine braking

IMO, Auto, Reasons are..

1. No questions that beach driving is best
2. Behind a 2.0Ltr Turbo engine you have plenty of power that Low Range isn't really needed in 99% of the time
3. Very easy mod to make the auto have a locked centre diff, giving you a almost true 4WD.
4. NO CLUTCH to burn out

Only down side to the auto that I've found is weight. They are heavier than the Manual but in a Brumby you'll have no worries.

Thanks for your guidence fella's. I didn't think about the engine braking down hill but as I'm a 4x4 novise I don't think I will put myself in any extreme situations. Cheers.

Just thinking about the awd centre diff mod that rsr555 mentioned can you give me more info about that?

dont forget there is a not-often-mentioned benefit of a dual range box.

if you put bigger tyres on, which you surely have or will, and you run in normal gearing, you'll get rather good fuel economy. then when you're off roading, you put it in low range and you get better gearing than a single range box. also, manuals are better for fuel economy over autos anyway, so it's a double benefit.

one thing i think of is how often would you go offroading. a good 98% of my driving is on the black top. and i way way way prefer manuals for that over autos. i little not as good on the beach is no problem for me

velocityboy wrote:Just thinking about the awd centre diff mod that rsr555 mentioned can you give me more info about that?

I'll have to find it for you.. I'm pressed for time right now but be back soon

twilightprotege wrote:if you put bigger tyres on, which you surely have or will, and you run in normal gearing, you'll get rather good fuel economy. then when you're off roading, you put it in low range and you get better gearing than a single range box. also, manuals are better for fuel economy over autos anyway, so it's a double benefit.

Remember that the Manual boxes are 4.11 and the Autos are 4.44 so ratios are designed for bigger wheels. BTW.. these are ratios for imported (JDM) 1/2 cuts.

velocityboy wrote:Just thinking about the awd centre diff mod that rsr555 mentioned can you give me more info about that?

Will get you started.
(my favorite mod)

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin ... 4eat-3091/

RSR 555 wrote:Remember that the Manual boxes are 4.11 and the Autos are 4.44 so ratios are designed for bigger wheels. BTW.. these are ratios for imported (JDM) 1/2 cuts.

but autos only have 4 gears, and torque converters are poo

but still, dont do anything to your car that you'll use 1% of the time - think about the other 99% which is why i have and will keep my off roaders are manuals

Once you've driven slow technical offroad with an auto, you won't go back to a manual. Subarus can't be geared low enough to have engine brakeing so it's not part of the equation.

yeah that's my thing - i never have and probably never will drive slow technical stuff. my offroading is all beach and the occational dirt track/mud/etc. and that offroading is a very low % of the time, so manual wins hands down for me

Thank you again guys,the tips are very helpful. I would prefer the auto because I'm getting lasy in my old age, I am just concerned that useing an auto would be a big disadvantage. Thanks for the tip with the diff lock aswell. I only need to source a 4.44 ratio rear diff if anyone has one they would like to sell, and then I can get in to it.

try and source a VTD auto box form a TT legacy or WRX

search VTD on rslibertyclub.org...

On this auto versus manual alternatives, I bought a 1986 RX with second series EJ22 and 4.44 gearing 4 speed auto (Thanks FATZ, she's a beauty) as well as lsd rear. It is fitted with chunky pattern tyres, fairly bald rear tyres and reasonably good fronts, didn't hold much hope for offroading but the first thing I did was put it up a greasy and very steep hill. It had been raining overnight so wouldn't have been betting on it getting halfway up let alone to the top. It sailed up very easily so turned around and went up the same disturbed clay and grass tracks as before but this time pulled up half way to really test it. Wow! It took off just as easily and accelerated to the top. Next day I took my brother up the same track to show him what this old dunger could do, impressed him no end so pulled up half way again and took off flooring it, no holding back. Yep, NO spinning at all, only bloody good solid grippy performance! With crap tyres on the back too, how well would it go with grippo ones I can only imagine.

Sooo,... if someone tells you "nahhh, it's only an auto, wouldn't be much chop mate" don't believe it, they do have their uses. As a comparison, I took my Brumby with EJ22 & DR AWD (4.11) gearbox up this same track in near identical conditions after finally getting it going recently and got three quarters of the way up before losing traction, had to gingerly and slowly reverse back down but to be fair it is only fitted with 14" road tyres so not a good back to back but still interesting performance though.

Don't know about sand, gravel etc., but on wet greasy grass the auto performed exceptionally well, opened my eyes as well as my brother's too:mrgreen:

but was that more of a case of tyres or auto? you comment of "no spinning at all" makes me think it was all tyres

Subarus can't be geared low enough to have engine brakeing

I agree with brumbyrunner, all the manuals I have had (l series d/r) have not had low enough gearing for engine braking. On the really steep stuff I use to put it in neutral to stop the engine stalling.

Auto's are great offroad until they go bang $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
The vtd locked on in 1st rolling down a hill has ok braking.Man i miss my auto offroader.

In reply to twilightprotege; It really wasn't a very fair comparison so I changed the wheels over on the two cars (Brumby & RX) to make things a little more equal and tackled the hill again in low range first gear. The Brumby made it up and over reasonably easily so turned around to have a second attempt and stopped three quarters to the top. Not so easy this time as it scrabbled to gain traction on the fairly wet clay, kept at it and did finally make it over. I would have given the RX a run too but have taken the tailshaft, rear lsd and drive shafts out to use.

Soooo, it didn't do it quite as easily as the auto did but maybe the conditions were a little different as it has had a reasonable amount of rain on it recently, it seems that the consensus is that auto's are better in sand (loose gravel too?) than a similar geared manual but much the same in medium to hard packed dirt. Maybe....maybe not

Paul... i assume the auto box mod your refering to is the way u can lock the center diff and trick the ECU into thinking its not been touched... electronically.

I agree the Locking diff mod on the auto box is a good way to go but i only really find it a benfit when in a situation that any wheel slip would be bad. EG: You have parked in real boggy sand and want to get moving again without digging yourself into a hole.

The factory computer seams to do a pretty good job of locking the back up when it detects slip in normal situations i have found.

Dave