LPG tank in engine bay???

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:09 am

daggels wrote:i can buy the whole gas kit + tank for under $500. install is pretty easy, the tuning would be the hard part. but is it worth it :/

Installing is very easy but in Western Australia a gas fitter must install the system and a compliance plate is needed to make the setup legal.

TOONGA

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:26 am

TOONGA wrote:Installing is very easy but in Western Australia a gas fitter must install the system and a compliance plate is needed to make the setup legal.

TOONGA

Yeah also if you have compliance plate by certified LPG fitter to cover your arse - discuss with your local LPG fitter but most of them I already know that wont comply it unless they did the job themselves. If you dont have one and if something happens ie. in an accident and explosion caused and you would be in deep sh!t.
Cheers
AP

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:55 am

Compliance is the correct way, if you haven't done one or many before,its the safe way. If you can copy a correctly done, certified one, and the car is pre 94, there are loopholes in the compliance rules in Vic.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:26 am

the whole thing is based on a national standard AS1425:2007 at least. It is not worth challenging the certifiers about the local state laws if there are any different - if they are not gonna certify it they are not, but if you contacted relevant state authority you might find the inspector is obliged to help you out as in inspect the installation for a reasonable price and advise on where or if it fails, if not , supply you with a compliance plate and certificate- again - for a reasonable price.

There is a certain level of protectionism within the industry of made up rules, I reckon are invented by the mechanic himself/herself. Given the rough jobs of install I have seen over twenty years, that were at least certified and likely done by the certifiers shop, it is my belief someone who studies the standard and installs according to its specifications you'll do a better job than the guy working in the workshop working for the licence holder. It is the licence holder that has done the course, passed the test to a pass mark of 70% (that's 30% of the test he didn't understand!) Just how much of the standard does the installer know !?

Then you see the clever dick that has scored a 25 year old system and does his own interpretation of a conversion using used pipes, hoses and fittings (big No no) and racks off as soon as he is told it will cost him 2 hours for us to go over his entire install to ensure it applies and will fail due to used fittings for a start.

daggels · Post by **daggels** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:16 pm

The kit i was referring to is brand new. just the open loop mixer ring over the carby, not the sensor version. whole thing for $250 to my door.
im probley not gonna do it now anyway, i want it to run with no hiccups on both petrol and lpg and by the sound of it, it wont.

tambox · Post by **tambox** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:23 pm

Ring mixers are generally a very poor way of adding LPG, inefficient and uneconomical. Then we get into distribution of LPG. Some are a poor fit and have to be made to fit, then they make the air cleaner sit higher.

Sorry, I could hang it on ring and spud mixers all day. Very much a patch up way of fitting gas.

daggels · Post by **daggels** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:34 pm

after some of the storys iv read over the past couple of days im tempted to stay away from lpg altogether!! i know the mixer rings aint that great. im only looking at lpg as a highway alternative. im not gonna do a full conversion (lpg only) it isnt what i wanna do.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:33 pm

I know of (personally) of 3 EA81s getting about on dedicated LPG and have done so for MANY years.

There is a lot white noise around re LPG.

Old timers (with full respect) such as Steptoe are evidence enough it can be done...

How you then go about it - tanks replacing petrol tanks, spare wheel tanks in the engine bay etc is the fun bit!

Do not be distracted from the true path...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:27 pm

old ?

As for range on lpg only, my 80 litre useable tank should go some distance , lately been doing about 62 l 540 km - used to be 70 l for same distance - the fuel seems to change ??? So, should be able to do 600km without pushing the vehicle , but, not with full payload area

Ring mixers work OK on postive pressure systems that the euros seem to make, Impco has always been negative pressure until lately they have a little positive pressure Cobra for jamming a ring mixer in somewhere.
I was always hesitant about conversions that needed to be thought out and custom built as opposed to the pre assembled kits that arrived in a box with every nut bolt and screw needed to have the thing up and running.

The hesitation was uncalled for each time.

If you go dual fuel with a petrol carby you really need to adopt a running method such as start and finish each day running on petrol so the carby gaskets don't dry out or things gunk up from being dry. Pick a point a few kms from home that you switch to and from petrol, so it arrives home at night with a bowl of fuel for next days start on petrol.

daggels · Post by **daggels** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:58 am

I'm definitely going with a duel fuel setup, and i had a thought.
LPG requires more advanced ignition timing correct? how much are we talking???
anywhere similar to premium vs normal unleaded?
how would the LPG system run, if i had the engine tuned for premium?
would that be in the ball park of a better halfway mark or am i barking up the wrong tree???

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:21 pm

If you can get premium to run at 14 static and no more than 28 deg BTDC then it will be happy. I have done one dizzy to be set at 14BTDC and limited to no more than 28 degrees as an old fashioned std for the LPG application. The other EA81 just advanced it to about 14 and nothing else runs fine and does 60 litre to 540 km. The EA82T has a good set up - something I'd like to adapt to an EA81 - a separate knock sensor control box, sensor and four pin module in the dizzy so any knock worthy of activating sensor pulls timing back. That'd be a good one for running different octanes. LPG used to be 109 RON - reckon still is close

given my EA82T and 12psi boost needs a bloody hot day and lot a load to activate the control. Many who go duel

fuel , rarely use petrol due to the better driveabilty they get from LP over the petrol - and cost saving

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:30 am

never quite stretched things as far as i did last night...598.9km of which about a thirds was hauling at least 300kgs of trailer n stuff 74.8 litres

. With a capacity of ~ 80 litre useable, I came close to pushing .....

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:05 am

steptoe wrote:never quite stretched things as far as i did last night...598.9km of which about a thirds was hauling at least 300kgs of trailer n stuff 74.8 litres . With a capacity of ~ 80 litre useable, I came close to pushing .....

Better than my '10 FG Falcon (Company car) which does average 80litres for 550kms.
Cheers
AP

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:31 pm

, reminds me i need to contact someone - he was doing 75l to 540km in sedan lpg FG, but this is just a 1800cc gutless 70's engineering V's the new millenium Ford

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:33 pm

steptoe wrote: , reminds me i need to contact someone - he was doing 75l to 540km in sedan lpg FG, but this is just a 1800cc gutless 70's engineering V's the new millenium Ford

(wish had like button like facebook!)
Yep... big difference plus weight and the size of the engine. My driving is 60% highway 40% urban.
Cheers
AP