Bianca Engine Work

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Silverbullet
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Post by Silverbullet » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:50 pm

revmax wrote:Rings can be fitted without spliting the block but a better job of honing the bores can be done if you do split the block. But it can be honed with the block still intact, just a little more care is required.
Yeah revmax do tell :) I've remembered you take the pistons out before splitting the block so you could change the rings, but if you left it intact while you honed it surely the connecting rods would get in the way? and all the honing fluid/metal dust would get into the crank assembly?
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revmax
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Post by revmax » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:31 am

I haven't done it but put plenty of thought into it if I ever had to.
With pistons removed rotate the crank so the selected cyl's rod is at the bottom.
Cut a circle of say 1/2" thick high density foam with a slot 2/3 of the way through it as far down in the cyl as possible. This foam will support the rod and keep it central and stop debree from going to far down. Plug the little end of the rod with a nicley cut piece of the same foam

The engine stand can be rotated so honing debree will flow out the cyl.
Then just get a 3 stone hone some kero (use a hand pump style squirty bottle, ya dont need much) and give the bore a lickin, just be carefull how far you go down. (or up cause the cyl you are honing is on a doward incline remember)
get some good clean rags with some solvent and wipe the bore clean, then go on to the next cyl.
"THE BRUMBY ! , Your not taking the Brumby I just dry cleaned the mud flaps."
Current
00 Outback with class, SOHC EJ25 auto 240,068ks
"B1" 90 Brumby with character 271,800K EA81 (But soon 5speed,103,000k EJ202)
"B2" wrecked and crushed
"B3" 89 Bush Bashing Brumby (BeeRumBee) Kept a Bucca
"B4" 89 Black Brumby (wam balam ) Kept at Kempsey
"B5" 92 Brumby (sold it)
"B6" 88 Beige Brumby
"W1" 83 wagon 308,000 AC and alot of rust repairs. (Wanda)
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steptoe
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Post by steptoe » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:59 am

Not much more effort to split the block, I'd be goin' the whole hog. MAN! Some hot dyno shop crowd had a young guys awd Mitsu GSR Lancer in their sho for some work - the invoice stated they honed the bores, no new rings or nuffin', honed the bores above the pistons - ran like poo after - poor rings. Same shop had a good rep until they did timing belts on a twin turbo import, commented on the car and engine is all very good condition. 100km later there is suddenly no water in the engine, on the way to an interstate funeral she stops , dead - boat anchor material. Thought is the cooling system was not bled of air - workshop taken to court and lost against them :(

two strikes !!

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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:22 am

Yeah ok,
How would you get the pistons out?
Splitting the block sounds easier.
What are the cons of doing so? Im looking at Sam in particular.
Now is there a way to test for the piston rings, as i know it could also have been the head gasket, or an impropely seated valve, or valve seal thingy.
Thoughts Please.

Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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revmax
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Post by revmax » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:00 am

think you blokes have missed the point
"THE BRUMBY ! , Your not taking the Brumby I just dry cleaned the mud flaps."
Current
00 Outback with class, SOHC EJ25 auto 240,068ks
"B1" 90 Brumby with character 271,800K EA81 (But soon 5speed,103,000k EJ202)
"B2" wrecked and crushed
"B3" 89 Bush Bashing Brumby (BeeRumBee) Kept a Bucca
"B4" 89 Black Brumby (wam balam ) Kept at Kempsey
"B5" 92 Brumby (sold it)
"B6" 88 Beige Brumby
"W1" 83 wagon 308,000 AC and alot of rust repairs. (Wanda)
Brumby Trailer (Sulky)
LUV THAT BRUM !
RevMax Hobbies

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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NachaLuva
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Post by NachaLuva » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:05 pm

d_generate wrote:Hire an engine crane for the day when it goes back in.....much cheaper than back surgery.
Slightly less painful too :rolleyes:
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Silverbullet
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Post by Silverbullet » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:15 pm

Cam to get the pistons out you need to pull the gudgeon pins out through 4 access holes in the block. To do this you need a slide hammer and a hex shaped wrench for your ratchet handle (for the two front access holes) You can see the holes at the back when you take the bell housing plate off. You can see one of the front hole plugs already exposed, the other is under the water pump (bad bad place to put a steel plug :???:) Rotate the engine until gudgeon pin is visible, use needle nosed pliers to pull the circlip out, use your slider hammer to pull the pin out (they can be bloody difficult to remove) With the slider hammer end you need a long bolt with a step at the end to hook over the end of the gudgeon pin...kinda hard to explain.

Actually...seeing as I've done this before and took some pics why don't you have a look at my old thread so you can see what's inside yours before you take it apart :rolleyes:
showthread.php?t=19634&highlight=EA81+rebuild

Cons? err...you could be doing all this when there's nothing wrong (like I did :???:) You have to put it back together again (correct and CLEAN...like I didn't :???:) unless you get some place to do it for you, would cost a bit though.
Will it ever end!?
-EA81 TWIN CARB!!!!
-L series 5 speed
-Custom paint job
-2" lift
-Full custom re-wire
-L series front end
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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 pm

Ok, thanks.
Is there anyway to test to see if there is anything wrong?
So i don't end up like Sam?
Engine crane $40 a day, DONE, I was stoked.
What point are you refering to revmax?

Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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revmax
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Post by revmax » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:06 am

The engine has done a head gasket not a big end bearing.
"THE BRUMBY ! , Your not taking the Brumby I just dry cleaned the mud flaps."
Current
00 Outback with class, SOHC EJ25 auto 240,068ks
"B1" 90 Brumby with character 271,800K EA81 (But soon 5speed,103,000k EJ202)
"B2" wrecked and crushed
"B3" 89 Bush Bashing Brumby (BeeRumBee) Kept a Bucca
"B4" 89 Black Brumby (wam balam ) Kept at Kempsey
"B5" 92 Brumby (sold it)
"B6" 88 Beige Brumby
"W1" 83 wagon 308,000 AC and alot of rust repairs. (Wanda)
Brumby Trailer (Sulky)
LUV THAT BRUM !
RevMax Hobbies

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:21 pm

revmax wrote:The engine has done a head gasket not a big end bearing.
Mmmm & so you are saying i don't need to bother with this?
Apart from gasket issue.
I do have some blow back.
Possible causes...
Head gasket
Valve issue
piston rings
How can i tell which it might be without putting it back together and taking it apart again?
I would like to fix that to get better compression and performance.

Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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revmax
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Post by revmax » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:33 pm

Yes, disturbing the bottom end is creating unessary work and risk.
a simple valve leak test.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... -4.3.1l8l0

I am still confused as how you blokes think cutting a piece of foam is so difficult. Cause if you were to hone the cyls then cutting the foam is the only exta thing that would be necessary when done as I have described above.
Steptoe you went of on a tanget as I never mentioned anything about honing only above the rings.
"THE BRUMBY ! , Your not taking the Brumby I just dry cleaned the mud flaps."
Current
00 Outback with class, SOHC EJ25 auto 240,068ks
"B1" 90 Brumby with character 271,800K EA81 (But soon 5speed,103,000k EJ202)
"B2" wrecked and crushed
"B3" 89 Bush Bashing Brumby (BeeRumBee) Kept a Bucca
"B4" 89 Black Brumby (wam balam ) Kept at Kempsey
"B5" 92 Brumby (sold it)
"B6" 88 Beige Brumby
"W1" 83 wagon 308,000 AC and alot of rust repairs. (Wanda)
Brumby Trailer (Sulky)
LUV THAT BRUM !
RevMax Hobbies

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:41 pm

Cool, will do that in a minute.
Thanks Revmax!!!
Hoping i find leaky valves (touch wood)
If not i hope it was the gasket failure.

Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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revmax
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Post by revmax » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:49 pm

if there wasen't any blowby before the gasket failure then it is VERY likley the be compression leaking into the case when the gasket failed.
How many K's has it done.
Edit the gaket and cyl photos show a compression leak.
The amount of carbon on the pistons makes me think the oil rings are worn, is there much carbon build up in the exhaust ports and was it using much oil.
"THE BRUMBY ! , Your not taking the Brumby I just dry cleaned the mud flaps."
Current
00 Outback with class, SOHC EJ25 auto 240,068ks
"B1" 90 Brumby with character 271,800K EA81 (But soon 5speed,103,000k EJ202)
"B2" wrecked and crushed
"B3" 89 Bush Bashing Brumby (BeeRumBee) Kept a Bucca
"B4" 89 Black Brumby (wam balam ) Kept at Kempsey
"B5" 92 Brumby (sold it)
"B6" 88 Beige Brumby
"W1" 83 wagon 308,000 AC and alot of rust repairs. (Wanda)
Brumby Trailer (Sulky)
LUV THAT BRUM !
RevMax Hobbies

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:09 pm

revmax wrote:if there wasen't any blowby before the gasket failure then it is VERY likley the be compression leaking into the case when the gasket failed.
How many K's has it done.
Edit the gaket and cyl photos show a compression leak.
The amount of carbon on the pistons makes me think the oil rings are worn, is there much carbon build up in the exhaust ports and was it using much oil.
Not sure
295,000km
Yes
Not sure, i stopped using it soon after the gasket failure, when water was filling up the sump.
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:03 pm

Tested the valves as said with brake fluid.
Perfect!!!
But there is a lot of carbon everywhere :( (Pistons, valves, spark plugs etc)

Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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El_Freddo
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Post by El_Freddo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:44 pm

Brumby Kid wrote:Engine Blow By/Back. Is this where you can feel air coming out of the air cox instead of sucking?
What can you do? Coz iz I have to split the block for that im gonna be pissed.
No. Blow by is when you can feel positive air pressure coming out from the oil filler when you remove the cap. It can also be blue in colour as it burns a little bit of the crank case oil.

Excessive, oil rings will be shot shortly after this and you'll see that as blue smoke out the back of the car when you start it/drive/use the engine at any time...
Brumby Kid wrote:Yeah ok,
How would you get the pistons out?
Splitting the block sounds easier.
What are the cons of doing so? Im looking at Sam in particular.
Now is there a way to test for the piston rings, as i know it could also have been the head gasket, or an impropely seated valve, or valve seal thingy.
Thoughts Please.
Hex keyholes on the side of the block beside each cylinder, I think Sam's gone into this. Splitting the block is done to change the cam (for a better one, your cam shouldn't be worn out yet), replace main bearings and big end bearings.

A full engine rebuild like this will give you the best stock compression you can get without starting on other mods you'd go for if building a real performance engine. The cam is a big part of this.

If you follow the instructions, have everything measured as instructed and the appropriately sized parts used in the rebuild. Double check tensions are as they should be and that things are clean when you do the rebuild. The other important thing is to make sure you place the bearings in the correct way around if you go the full rebuild.
Brumby Kid wrote:Is there anyway to test to see if there is anything wrong?
So i don't end up like Sam?
Cam, that's a bit harsh. It was Sam's first build and he needed it done. He may have missed one big end bearing not being seated properly or was in the wrong way around - we'll never know. But it was a gutsy move and I hope that he has another go at it soon, just slower and more thorough/attention to detail used.
Brumby Kid wrote: Apart from gasket issue.
I do have some blow back.
Possible causes...
Head gasket
Valve issue
piston rings
How can i tell which it might be without putting it back together and taking it apart again?
I would like to fix that to get better compression and performance.
Blow by can't result from a head gasket - that's a leaking head gasket and is different to blow by. Blow by is the compression rings no longer holding the burning fuel mixture in the cylinder, the way to find this is by a compression test before you pull it a part or to inspect the bore once you've got the heads off and read up on a guide as to what the bore is telling you. Note: Subaru engines are good at still showing the hone markings at +300K but they're no good anymore for bedding in the rings as this would have occurred ages ago.
revmax wrote:Yes, disturbing the bottom end is creating unessary work and risk.
Dunno about the "unnecessary work and risk" bit. If you're going for mild performance an engine rebuild is the best way to get the most from your engine. Personally if I was going to hold on to this engine for some time I'd be going the whole hog with a mild cam dropped inplace of the stock unit for a bit more pep while driving.
revmax wrote:Steptoe you went of on a tanget as I never mentioned anything about honing only above the rings.
Steptoe was sharing a story of how not to do it. 1) honing is good for new rings to bed in, I wouldn't be pulling the pistons out if you weren't going to hone the bore and throw in new rings. But then again I wouldn't putting an engine back together without having the bore checked out for roundness and straightness (for the want of a better term).
2) You don't ever hone the bore with the piston still installed. Not only can you not hone the whole bore stroke you also can't clean out all the debris created by honing the bore.

ALWAYS wash the block after having honing work/re-bore work done, you'll be surprised how much debris comes out in the wash!
revmax wrote:if there wasen't any blowby before the gasket failure then it is VERY likley the be compression leaking into the case when the gasket failed.
How many K's has it done.
Edit the gaket and cyl photos show a compression leak.
The amount of carbon on the pistons makes me think the oil rings are worn, is there much carbon build up in the exhaust ports and was it using much oil.
Yeah this is always a hard one to say. The engine could have been running rich... or this could be normal carbon build up for a petrol drinking engine with almost 300k km on the clock:

Image

It's hard to tell by photos and without seeing the engine run before it was torn down.

It's always a complex equation as to what you do - if you were just pulling it down due to a leaking head gasket and that's all you want then just do that work.

If you're after some solid reliable performance a complete rebuild will look after you so long as you do it carefully with attention to detail. Find a good build guide and follow that - and ask questions as you go ;)

Cheers

Bennie
"The lounge room is not a workshop..."
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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:10 pm

El_Freddo wrote:No. Blow by is when you can feel positive air pressure coming out from the oil filler when you remove the cap. It can also be blue in colour as it burns a little bit of the crank case oil.

Cam, that's a bit harsh. It was Sam's first build and he needed it done. It's always a complex equation as to what you do - if you were just pulling it down due to a leaking head gasket and that's all you want then just do that work.

If you're after some solid reliable performance a complete rebuild will look after you so long as you do it carefully with attention to detail. Find a good build guide and follow that - and ask questions as you go ;)

Cheers

Bennie
Ok So, it's air coming out of the air cleaner backwards. I was told it was blow back/by.

Sorry, Wasn't meaning it to come out like that, it was just easy to say so people knew what i ment. I take my hat off to Sam for doing what you did, but sorry Sam I really don't want my engine to fail.

Yes just a head gasket, but while the engine is out....

Yes I am after some solid reliable performance.

Where might I find a good build guide Bennie, never really knew it was written.

Cheers Cam
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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Silverbullet
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Post by Silverbullet » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:12 pm

El_Freddo wrote: Cam, that's a bit harsh. It was Sam's first build and he needed it done. He may have missed one big end bearing not being seated properly or was in the wrong way around - we'll never know. But it was a gutsy move and I hope that he has another go at it soon, just slower and more thorough/attention to detail used.
Don't think he meant it to be harsh there Bennie :rolleyes: I won't mind if he doesn't rebuild the whole thing himself based on what happened to me if it means he doesn't end up with a busted motor like I did.

That picture of the engine with the piston tops exposed, does that residue look oily to anyone else? Mine were straight carbon from running with the choke out constantly and the residue was black powder. Unless Cam got coolant on his pistons which made it slimy.
Will it ever end!?
-EA81 TWIN CARB!!!!
-L series 5 speed
-Custom paint job
-2" lift
-Full custom re-wire
-L series front end
Image

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Brumby Kid
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Post by Brumby Kid » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:18 pm

Well, yes i think there could have been coolant, but it is more likely to be WD40.
Daniel said spray WD40 in the bores daily to stop them rusting.
When life gives you a corner, drop a gear, pitch, and stomp the loud pedal
Bianca: 1991 Subaru Brumby
My First / Project car

EA81 Rebuilt by Tony Knight from knight Engines
2" body lift
25" 185r14 Yokahama Delivery Star, light truck tyres
2" Sports exhaust
Rear Aguip step/bar
Liberty seats
"Bianca"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dads Car: 02 Impreza WRX STi
Mums Car 08 Liberty Wagon

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Post by mud_king91 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:12 pm

even weekly is fine they were oily as i rubbed before anything else went into the bores the exhaust prts were a tad oily as well and i have lots of foam.... found it in the bin at work along with 4M of double core wiring and a heap of mesh
GROWING OLD IS COMPULSORY... GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL


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BRUMBY, FORESTER prefferably GT

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