totally stumped!

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:17 am

cool thanks

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:36 pm

well it was the firing order. just got to get the timing right now and it should be good

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:54 pm

ARGHAHGHAHGARGRHAGRGGGAAAAARRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

car starts, runs like poo.

so here's the current issues.

first of all, i put the flywheel at the middle of the 3 timing lines. 1-3 cam has the timing mark at the top, 2-4 has the timing mark at the bottom. so everything is spot on there.

problem 1) no matter how i set the dizzy, i either have to push the dizzy one way and barely get 14deg BTDC timing (which is ok because that's about where i want the timing anyway). when i move the dizzy around to the next spot, and i push the dizzy all the other way, i am getting around 24deg BTDC timing. and yes, this is with the vacuum line disconnected and plugged.

i'm ok with it being at about 14deg BTDC, but it's really strange i cant any timing between 14 and 24 even if i really wanted to.

could this be an issue with the NA 4-plug cams vs the turbo 3-plug cams? I noticed that when you put both dizzies together, and you set the dizzies to their timing mark, the location of the dizzy arm or whatever it's called is in a different location - ie comparing the 2, they wont line up

problem 2) backfire - on the intake side (aka not nice). now that could be because of the above problem, which is my guess, so i'll wait and see how the above issue pans out.

possible solution - should i put in the turbo 3-plug cams?????

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:35 am

My EA82T's have come with four plug dizzy which i have replaced with the three plug dizzy and installed as my pics I sent you and worked fine. I would not worry about the differences of the dizzy you found. The compression you have before boost needs timing of about 8deg BTDC, when you add boost you are gonna want less, surely? And you have the knock sensor system in place? Safer to add advance once running right with minimal advance first? Rather than reduce timng advance coz it pinged its head off....

Do not believe cams will make much difference in the lower range of this set up.

You saying you can get 14 and 24 and nothing either side of or between ?

T'subaru · Post by **T'subaru** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:59 am

There are alignment marks on the dist to align prior to dropping in, when your set at tdc.

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:52 am

i can get from anything up to 14 degrees btdc, then nothing, then anything after 24 degrees btdc. it's so so so strange.

maybe i should set the timing to NA timing of 8 degrees btdc? of course this is with the vacuum line disconnected, as are the other figures i've said. when i set the timing to 14 btdc with the vacuum disconnected, the timing was about 22 or 24 btdc with it connected.

definately have the knock sensor in place.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:47 am

Those alignment marks referred to in factory manual and instructions make me cranky and get no fire! Which is why I pulled things apart and took photos and feeler gauge measure of stator and magnetic pick up in dizzy - works every time.

"i can get from anything up to 14 degrees btdc, then nothing, then anything after 24 degrees btdc. it's so so so strange"

Is that in the one fit of the dizzy or two fits - one tooth apart? With boost on NA comp , I would first choose anything up to 14DBTDC position to play with and try 6 degrees.

By accident I discovered that to have the knock wiring from dizzy to control undone still ran - quite good, did not suspect anything was wrong - just found I had forgotten to hook up !!

Can you email a low kb (50KB is enough) to me of your dizzy you say looks different to mine?

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:10 am

2 fits - 1 tooth apart.

and i forgot to reply to you, my dizzy does look the same, i was thinking of the 4 plugger dizzy.

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:35 pm

ok more news. i moved the timing back to about 8 deg btdc, no difference.

so, i dont know why i didnt look before, but i looked at my (sik) boost gauge. at idle it was only reading about 15" Hg rather than the usual 21" Hg or so....and that was with the idle screw all the way out! i dont have anything that could be causing a vacuum leak, so i'm going to take another big step - swap the intake manifold from the old turbo engine. so basically now, it's only the block and internals that differ from a turbo engine.

sigh

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:59 pm

just had a thought - the vaf (aka flapper) - could it get stuck in anyway??? basiclaly blocking the air flow?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:24 am

engine to engine the vacuum can differ, mine only idles about 15 to 16 and get 20 when backing off down hills.

So, what is up now?

It starts yep?

Still run like poo?

Driveable at all?

Don't you hate this?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:39 am

Well, I wonder if you did my trick and forgot to pull that old bit of clean T shirt out of the duct to stop crap getting in?? I have done it and could not believe I did. Started , ran like poo....

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:02 am

i didnt put anything in the intake manifold, so it's not that (unless it has been in there for ages and I didnt do it)

so yeah the car starts, barely. the idle screw has to be all the way out. runs like poo, and definately not driveable. the car would just die and/or backfire and carry on.

strange about the vacuum you get - i've never seen a healthy engine get less than about 20"Hg vacuum at idle. anything less has been because of issues (mainly minor however)

so this arvo, going to drain the coolant, swap the IM, and see how that goes. at least i can seal up the leaky water pump while i'm at it.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:15 am

fuel pressure test? May just be coincidence and not what you have done as such....

engine speed also has something to do with vacuum at idle. sure my engines have been in pretty good health. the altitude may be the difference , i am at 643m above sea level and use dry fuel at about 600 - 700rpm

essentially you have an NA mpfi until boost and you had same engine running before in different car minus the turbo and its pipes
you got 4 plug ECU and 3 plug dizzy with its own knock box and sensor? Is the ECU looking for some signal ? You have compared the ECU pin diagrams have you not?

So... you have a 3 plug ECU mpfi car and a 4 plug ecu mpfi turbo car? Did you disconnect a plug at the ECU to isolate spark control as you now have dizzy and its knock control separate? Been onto USMB to post problem?

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:21 am

dont have a gauge unfortunately

but that was one thing i did think of, and antoher reason why i'm going to use the old IM and everything - i knew that worked for certain.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:32 pm

Interesting. I can't remember reading if the NA motor was a 4 plug ECU motor.

If so, use the turbo motor's inlet manifold and associated wiring/pipes/pollution gear as well as the turbo's dizzy (I'm sure you've done the dizzy swap already).

You meantioned screwing out the idle screw as far as possible. This is not how you adjust the idle! If you've moved this screw you'll have to readjust the TPS as per the manual. The idle has an air bypass valve/solenoid that is adjustable for the ECU/engine temp to control - details are hazy as its been a while since playing with the MPFI's of the EA82 variety.

Hope this is another thing to check out...

Cheers

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:37 pm

Ah yeah, the turbo TPS may also be different to NA mpfi TPS

twilightprotege · Post by **twilightprotege** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:59 am

it is - and i already thought of the TPS and changed that over.

mpfi intake manifold is off (with some effort - one of the bolts broke off - bit rusted), so hopefully the turbo IM will go on this arvo. let the goo settle for 24 hours or so, then fill er up with coolant and see what happens then

i meant the idle screw at the back of the TB - not adjusting the position of the butterfly

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:36 pm

steptoe wrote:Ah yeah, the turbo TPS may also be different to NA mpfi TPS

It is - the NA MPFI doesn't have one!

Cheers

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:33 pm

Huh? No TPS? on L Series NA MPFI? Throttle Position Sensor? You sure Bennie?