EJ22 with extractors

[guyph_01]

Hi guys,

My friend is selling his car and it has extractors on it. He told me that i could have them and swap them with the ones on my wagon. My question is would it be worth it? would it be better to have them than not too? Would it make any difference?

The extractors seem longer in over length and has a smaller cat. It looks to be professionally made, not a backyard job.

So what do you guys think? should i take them before the car gets sold?

thx

[AndrewT]

Absolutely not. It is well documented that there is basically nothing you can do bolt-on wise to increase performance on a stock EJ22, except keep it in good condition with regular servicing.
However, if you have the time to waste then it can't do any harm.
It's going to have about as much effect on performance as when you painted your engine crossmember and radius rods in bright colours.

[guyph_01]

hahahaha lol... Thx Might try and paint the extractors red and see if that then increases performance LOL:P

thx i'll see if i have time to swap them around.

[Alex]

do it. Better sound.

it has been known that custom headers do make a little bit of a difference to performance. Offering better back pressure and flow.

[AndrewT]

Show me the dyno or quarter mile figures before/after.

I forgot to mention 1 bolt-on performance mod that does actually work tho - supercharger. Altho still not worth it imho.

[RSR 555]

Absolutely not. It is well documented that there is basically nothing you can do bolt-on wise to increase performance on a stock EJ22, except keep it in good condition with regular servicing.
However, if you have the time to waste then it can't do any harm.
It's going to have about as much effect on performance as when you painted your engine crossmember and radius rods in bright colours.

Hey Andrew.. I curious about this documentation? Have you got any copies that you post? As we've done a lot of testing on engine dynos and found large differences between standard and header pipes. It does depend a lot on where the collectors are placed in the headers and sizes of pipe.

btw.. I heard that painting things red makes them go faster :D:D

[AndrewT]

documented as in, well covered on forums. Particularly rslibertyclub.org. A quick search on there will reveal that it is very widely accepted that if you have an EJ22, wait till you are off your P plates then get a turbo Subaru. Lots of people have wasted alot of time and money trying to increase the power of their EJ22 with wanky addons and failed massively. While putting extractors on may garner a very slight improvement in power, it will just result in your car being "slightly less extremely slow". The cost/effort of doing it is just not worth it. Unless your primary objective is to change the sound of your car, I've heard they can make it sound fairly different.
Another thing to consider is heat. The factory heat shields on the original EJ22 headers do a good job and keeping the radiating heat down. If you were reeming your engine, melting the timing covers is not beyond the realms of possibility. Elfreddo did this with an EA82 but I don't think it was because of his headers but it proves they can melt from high temperatures. You may need to put heat wrap (not really very good for an offroader....imagine it soaking up all the mud) or a ceramic coating (very very expensive).

Surely the EJ22 is good enough for the old L series Guyph? If it's going to be free you may aswell go for it. Hopefully it lines up to the rest of your exhaust easily enough so you don't have to mess around too much or employ the services of an exhaust shop.

Paul - post up the differences you've seen on a dyno with a stock EJ22/stock headers, and the same engine with aftermarket headers. If you've done this EXACT scenario then the figures will be applicable to this thread
I'm aware that aftermarket extractors can make a huge difference in the right situation with the right engine. My only point is that in this particular scenario it just aint worth it, and I know lots of people have tried - from what I read.

[RSR 555]

Sorry Guy

Hey Andrew.. I'm not going to start an online war but what you first posted is that no bolt-on items make any difference to an EJ22. I begged to differ and I can post Dyno sheets (on this EXACT animal) of the power/torque increases in a standard EJ22 (I'm away at work and will when I return home) but it's proving something that is plainly obvious. As for comparing a EJ22 to a EJ20 Turbo then there is no comparsion. Forced induction is a whole different kettle of fish.

So if it's good for Guyph then maybe you should have posted that instead of telling him not to do it. I think this site and people should give advice on their experiances and not on what they think on the day. I'm not having a go at you Andrew but I have spoken to others (infact they have brought it up) that we should really post advice on here from hands-on experiance (if we want to keep it a place of good advice) and not something they have read on another forums. As you know, not all people get it right.

[TOONGA]

guy grab them and try them

1 they are free

2 they are newer than the ones you have

3 they are probably less restrictive

4 even if there is no power gain they will change the way your exhaust sounds

4 did I mention they are free?

TOONGA

[AndrewT]

It's a public forum, everyone can give their opinions right or wrong. The more opinions posted the better.
My advice was that I don't think this upgrade is worth doing. At no point did I tell Guyph not to do it. Despite giving my opinion, I also mentioned in several posts that he may as well give it a go - not much to loose in this case. My main point is that in my opinion there is not much to gain.
I always try to base my advise on real world experience as it's the strongest standpoint to be in, but I think that knowledge based on reading others' experiences is also a valid thing to pass on. In this case (and as always) I was completely open with where I draw my knowledge from and even mentioned the exact forum.

Post up your figures Paul, you'll probably change my opinion as to how worthwhile the various bolt-ons to EJ22's can be. Unless you're worried about starting some kind of war.....but a difference of opinion in this case is a wonderful thing, it motivates people to find out even more detailed information.


Re toonga's post - Being newer isn't necessarily good in this case. I've seen several cases (posted by people online) of aftermarket extractors being cracked and needing repair. Have never heard of this happening with stock headers. Maybe this only happens with cheaper brands.
Perhaps I need to do a search, link to all the threads that mention this, PM the people involved, find out their addresses, bring a team of investigators to their house to carefully document each case.....or maybe just what I've written might suffice to take the info onboard

[Alex]

Guy, can i borrow the headers for a day? I need to go to two peoples houses and HIT them with the headers....lol.

[Venom]

Extractor design is pretty bloody complicated. Length, diameter, position of the collector pipes all have a part to play in what they will do for your car. When i was researching the topic for the exhaust that went in my L series i took note that the longer they are before the collectors then gain more low down torque, it worked in my case and i was really happy with my extrators.

I would hazard a guess that no one will be able to determine over the net what these particular extractors will do for your car, even with pics and specs. If they're free, try them. I think extractor design is a bit of a black art and to some extent its a matter of trial and error. Regardless of all that they will sound good!

[El_Freddo]

Extractor design is pretty bloody complicated. Length, diameter, position of the collector pipes all have a part to play in what they will do for your car. When i was researching the topic for the exhaust that went in my L series i took note that the longer they are before the collectors then gain more low down torque, it worked in my case and i was really happy with my extrators.

I would hazard a guess that no one will be able to determine over the net what these particular extractors will do for your car, even with pics and specs. If they're free, try them. I think extractor design is a bit of a black art and to some extent its a matter of trial and error. Regardless of all that they will sound good!

I agree that extractor design has a lot to do with performance. I also question the quality of the units you can find on ebay.

Yes, a mate of mine's dad has built his life on his exhaust knowledge from fabricating them from scratch. Last I heard he was making the exhausts for the Ford Cobra on contract - even the mufflers were hand made.

You might find that these extractors may need the rest of the exhaust setup changed to reach their full potential. Probably best to hit up your mate for more details about what he had done to the exhaust when these extractors went on.

Best thing I've done to my EJ22 is whack on a 2 and a 1/4 cat back system as can be found on my Ruby Scoo thread.

And yes, Andy T is correct, I melted the cam covers off my EA82 on the way home from our Perth road trip in 2007! Bros collected the bottom of the car on the other side of a washout at 70km/h while rushing me to hospital after crushing a finger (another story) - this ripped out a captive nut and let the exhaust open up a hole that blew hot exhaust gasses onto the back of the cam cover. Lucky the cam belt held up!

I'd say give these extractors a go - they're super expensive to make up and if they're not for you flog them on ebay and replace with a much cheaper yet proven factory set

Cheers

Bennie

[AndrewT]

So you've put them on already Guyph?
+400hp?
Sounds like a hotted up STI WRX now?

[Subafury]

before and after video pls.

[guyph_01]

Hahahaha, this thread has turned out to be quite the thread.
Anyway at about the 5th post I decided to put the extractors on my car.
When I removed them I gave them a good inspection to see if there was any cracks, small imperfections etc, but it all look good. Surprisingly they went in really easy, even better than the stock EJ y pipes as on my car the standard ones used to rub with the RH gearbox cross member bracket and now with the extractors nothing rubs.

The sound is a lot better, it has a more distinctive rumble now. Don't think I have an exhaust leak either. As for the performance i'm not sure, maybe its my mind but it drives as good or maybe slightly better than before. Definitely does not feels worst.
So i guess i'm quite happy, with the little advantages it has given me and , yes toonga, it was free.

Didn't take a pic of what they looked like, i should have:( They look to be strong and of a good quality. Worst thing i'll just put the stock one back if they crack.

Thx all you guys for the advise.

[El_Freddo]

So you've put them on already Guyph?
+400hp?
Sounds like a hotted up STI WRX now?

Is everything ok with you AndyT?? You seem to be pissed off about something and the way you're dealing with it is by taking the piss/frustrations outta others... You know Guyph wasn't going to get 400hp or a WRX sound from a set of extractors!

Mind you, Ruby Scoo sounds better than some WRX's I've seen up here so far since putting the new exhaust on her. The other week I made a dude in a forester GT turn his head to see what was behind him

Glad you've got a positive from it Guyph, that's what we like to hear! What exhaust are you running behind the extractors? I've got a 2 and a 1/4 inch cat back system with centre muffler and new rear muffler - all tucked up nicely near the underbody.

Cheers

Bennie

[AndrewT]

haha sorry wasn't intended like that at all, just my silly sarcasm. I should have added a smiley face!
Glad to hear you're happy with the results Guyph. I wouldn't be, but everyone's different lol.

[red_rocket]

im jealous that it doesnt rub on you right control arm/shaft. That annoys me when it does that on my car.good work mate