EJ25 Issues

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:03 pm

Hi,

My Engine lately has been having MASSIVE problems starting up, getting rapidly worse. It usually takes a lot of cranking. I start and stop at least 3-4 times before it will actually start the engine. This is only when cold however, when warm it still isnt purfect but usually starts first time without too much hassle.

A few days ago it took ages and when it finally started it backfired very loudly. Dad (hes quite mechanically minded) said its most likely a spark issue and the reason it backfired is because of all the fuel injected into the cylinders from attempting to start it.

I dont know if its related but sometimes when its running and im driving around it alternates between being nice and powerful, and other times its gutless as hell to the point of being almost undrivable (At one point i was doing 50 and wanted to go up to 60, i put it in to 3rd gear low range and i had my foot to the floor and the speed didnt even move). On the highway i had less power than Tazas EJ20.
I checked the cylinder compressions a while ago when it was running alright and they were all within 5 at around 230.

I have a suspicion it could be the ignition coil?

Cheers.

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:23 pm

have you replaced the leads and plugs at all? are even inspected them?

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:25 pm

thunder039 wrote:have you replaced the leads and plugs at all? are even inspected them?

I replaced 2 leads that were easy in the Repco car park, the 2 leads on the other side are hard to get to so i havent replaced them yet (because as you know my other troubles). The plugs were fine when i did the compression test, they were changed ~4000 km ago. Checked them 2500km ago. Id assume they should last much longer than that.

I should mention that the car never blows any smoke, has zero leaks of any kind externally. The oil is due in the next 500ish km for a change, since then its gone from a touch under full to a bit above low on the dipstick, but from what ive read thats normal if not good amount of oil burn for almost 5000kms (wish a lot of heavy driving).

thunder039 · Post by **thunder039** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:27 pm

is it missfireing at all? it seems that you and taza go through stages of bad luck all at once!

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:34 pm

thunder039 wrote:is it missfireing at all? it seems that you and taza go through stages of bad luck all at once!

Yeah all the bad stuff is seeming to happen since we both moved from Gero to Perth.

From what i can tell it doesnt really seems to be missfiring. When the performance is down it does seem to be shaking more but. Ill also mention the temp guage hasnt gone any higher at any stages. Ill check the radiator fluid next time i see the car for any milkyness if it has by chance done a head gasket, but usually id assume the engine would be more shaky that it is now and it wouldnt be an on and off thing?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:59 pm

Davidov wrote:My Engine lately has been having MASSIVE problems starting up, getting rapidly worse. It usually takes a lot of cranking. I start and stop at least 3-4 times before it will actually start the engine. This is only when cold however, when warm it still isnt purfect but usually starts first time without too much hassle.

Have you checked for codes? This could immediately point to the problem and if it doesn't do that it could lead you in the right direction.

Davidov wrote:A few days ago it took ages and when it finally started it backfired very loudly. Dad (hes quite mechanically minded) said its most likely a spark issue and the reason it backfired is because of all the fuel injected into the cylinders from attempting to start it.

I'd be checking your cam and crank angle sensors, I'd think it's the cam sensor before the crank sensor as the crank sensor will also cut the injector pulses, thus no fuel to burn and no spark to start the burn with.

Davidov wrote:At one point i was doing 50 and wanted to go up to 60, i put it in to 3rd gear low range and i had my foot to the floor and the speed didnt even move

I hope that you don't always drive/thrash around town in low range - it's the quickest way to wear out your low range and the best way to blow 1st or 2nd gear with continuous high loading of each gear! If this is what Taza does then it's no surprise about his gearbox.

Davidov wrote:On the highway i had less power than Tazas EJ20.

I "like" <insert sarcasm here> that you use the power of Taza's EJ20 as a known quantity among the forum members here. It's a bit hard to know how well it goes without having driven it personally.

Davidov wrote:I checked the cylinder compressions a while ago when it was running alright and they were all within 5 at around 230.

That sounds like a healthy compression level for each cylinder.

Also check your knock sensor - they can do weird things to your engine's performance.

This is Ruby Scoo when the knock sensor was shot as well as a couple of other things, but it was the main culprit:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/aLxO4ETlk9c

It was a bitch to start and all the berries weren't there when you were driving. Other than the starting it still drove ok.

Cheers

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:05 pm

fuel pressure or injectors or even the injector seals in the manifold aere some good ones to caus probs and be overlooked

Post by **Alex** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:22 pm

ill hazard a guess at fuel filters/pumps. Otherwise id go for the knock sensor.

Id be replacing both fuel filters first though. Im pretty sure theres one under the bonnet and one in the fuel tank/pump assembly.

alex

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:24 pm

El_Freddo wrote:
I hope that you don't always drive/thrash around town in low range - it's the quickest way to wear out your low range and the best way to blow 1st or 2nd gear with continuous high loading of each gear! If this is what Taza does then it's no surprise about his gearbox.

This is Ruby Scoo when the knock sensor was shot as well as a couple of other things, but it was the main culprit:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/aLxO4ETlk9c

It was a bitch to start and all the berries weren't there when you were driving. Other than the starting it still drove ok.

Cheers

Bennie

I rarely use low range. Only tried it because i dropped back to 3rd gear, no speed gain. So i went to 3rd to low. Still no speed gain. Only floored it because as i said, no speed gain from normal driving.

That vid of Ruby Scoo starting is almost EXACTLY what mine is like, except mine takes a few less attempts to start than that.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:43 pm

Davidov wrote:I rarely use low range. Only tried it because i dropped back to 3rd gear, no speed gain. So i went to 3rd to low. Still no speed gain. Only floored it because as i said, no speed gain from normal driving.

Good to hear. My gut said "oh no" when I first read it!

Davidov wrote:That vid of Ruby Scoo starting is almost EXACTLY what mine is like, except mine takes a few less attempts to start than that.

Yeah when it wasn't in the snow it was less than this. It usually took about 20 "pops" of it firing up and dying before it was able to hold idle, and even then it wavered around.

I hope it's something simple.

Cheers

Bennie

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:47 pm

Alex wrote:ill hazard a guess at fuel filters/pumps. Otherwise id go for the knock sensor.

Id be replacing both fuel filters first though. Im pretty sure theres one under the bonnet and one in the fuel tank/pump assembly.

alex

Just replaced my fuel filter and got a fuel pump from a EJ20TT import from JWS with <100000 kms on it(had to replace my in tank assembly and got the whole lot from JWS a quarter of the dealers price).

Post by **Alex** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:09 pm

Davidov wrote:Just replaced my fuel filter and got a fuel pump from a EJ20TT import from JWS with <100000 kms on it(had to replace my in tank assembly and got the whole lot from JWS a quarter of the dealers price).

okay maybe wait to change them out.

it does pretty much sound like a blocked fuel filter IMHO. Have you recently ran your petrol tank really low or you may have also picked up some dodgy fuel.

before you do any of that stuff (as your fuel filter is pretty much new) run a OBDII checker over the motor, your car is a series2 gen3 and will need the OBDII fault reader.

if no codes come through id be looking at non-electrical items such as the fuel system.

make sure all your intake hoses etc are in good nick and still connected.

taza · Post by **taza** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:29 pm

On the camping trip on the weekend though the pod filter fell off. We aren't sure how long for but it was a few hours on the dunes that we were driving around and it could of sucked some beach sand. This was only on the weekend though and the car was fine before that.
My Foz did how ever out run the Outback on the highway we we were driving side by side on an overtaking lane.
Again my car is runing at almost stock performance but the bigger tyres do have a slight impact on it.

thunder039 wrote:is it missfireing at all? it seems that you and taza go through stages of bad luck all at once!

Doesn't seem like it.

El_Freddo wrote:Have you checked for codes? This could immediately point to the problem and if it doesn't do that it could lead you in the right direction.

Nope but it's not popping any check engine lights.

I hope that you don't always drive/thrash around town in low range - it's the quickest way to wear out your low range and the best way to blow 1st or 2nd gear with continuous high loading of each gear! If this is what Taza does then it's no surprise about his gearbox.

Nope he just thrashes it around in high range. lol

I didn't thrash mine around in low but did use low onroad for steep hills or towing which is what its designed for in AWD Subies.

I "like" <insert sarcasm here> that you use the power of Taza's EJ20 as a known quantity among the forum members here. It's a bit hard to know how well it goes without having driven it personally.

My Foz did how ever out run the Outback on the highway we we were driving side by side on an overtaking lane.
Again my car is runing at almost stock performance but the bigger tyres do have a slight impact on it.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/aLxO4ETlk9c

Its exactly like this but backfires a few times. Not as bad though but the car is getting worse and harder to start.

Alex wrote:ill hazard a guess at fuel filters/pumps. Otherwise id go for the knock sensor.

Id be replacing both fuel filters first though. Im pretty sure theres one under the bonnet and one in the fuel tank/pump assembly.

alex

Replaced the fuel pump and filter which did make a huge improvment.

What happens is the car runs fine, so normal. Then all of a sudden is like the engine is too small and not enough power to move it. It doesn't seem misfiring, I know what this is like after mine doing it on a few occasions. Just seems gutless, then all of a sudden its normal again.

Post by **Alex** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:31 pm

I think you need to replace the knock sensor with a BRAND NEW item. - ebay $150max

alex

shuffbag · Post by **shuffbag** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:06 pm

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130573727378 ... 1497.l2649

were i got mine from $66.50 and i recived it 3 days from payment!

shuffbag · Post by **shuffbag** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:08 pm

sorry not the one for you? and it looks like he's out

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:16 am

I'd be cleaning the AFM before throwing too much money at it, just make sure you use contact or AFM spray (Dick Smith, Coventries etc) and get rid of the stupid pod, especially if it's oiled foam, standard air box is just as effective and won't fall off.

sven '2' · Post by **sven '2'** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:49 am

Still would be replacing the filters with new ones as a start - 10K old ones from OS still = unknown quantity I would suggest

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:25 am

a used fuel pump that has been sitting around eh ? Wow (excuse any scarcasm - you heard it)

I should ask what fuel pressure do you have at idle and while driving - I know it is a hard ask as not tooo many have a guage to do this, or want to take for a drive with fuel or oil pressure gauge hooked up to the windscreen with duck tape BUT it is how I diagnosed a few problems in cars with similar symptoms you describe.

Light bulb just hit me, we always used an old oil pressure gauge, now thinking it would not hurt to adapt an electronic oil pressure gauge to have a permanent fuel pressure gauge in car !!

So many variable with efi sensors hard to suggest ..

An air fuel meter might help too

Davidov · Post by **Davidov** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:55 am

steptoe wrote:a used fuel pump that has been sitting around eh ? Wow (excuse any scarcasm - you heard it)

After installing that it did make a slight improvement. But id probably attribute it more to the new fuel filter. (These were replaced less than 200kms ago, like last week).