EA82 on duel fuel?

batesy · Post by **batesy** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:27 pm

anyone got one ? i know itll lose power but would be lots cheap to run? any ideas on costs to do it?
its a carby engine....
cheers

INEEDABEER · Post by **INEEDABEER** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:40 pm

Too much I would think.Ive never seen one done.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:59 pm

batesy wrote:i know itll lose power but would be lots cheap to run?

Offroadingsubarus.com wrote:LPG DOES NOT LOOSE POWER!!!

people think lpg is crap because they have a dual fuel car and because the petrol has a lower octane than the lpg then you must set your timing to the petrol and thus don't get optimum lpg timing. Also you can run higher boost with lpg because it has an octane of 105 (some mixes are higher) and in the right set up can act like an intercooler by releasing the compressed gas into the hot intake. So next time some ideot tells you LPG is crap tell them that they should do their research and lear about something before they make sweeping generalisations about something which they heard on today tonight or my mate cletus told me.

LPG has a higher octane and a slightly lower energy content than petrol, hence the higher consumption, but with any fuel of a higher octane you can achive higher Kw than a lower octane. Alcohol is a prime example, with 1/3 the energy content and an octane of 115 (I think, not sure on the exact) it powers the fastest accelerating vehicles on earth...

as for costs..you really arent going to save enough imho to render the costs of gettin it installed insignificant

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:54 pm

To be honest, LPG is good to be installed, it depends how long it'll be "re-paid and get money back", okay & fair enough if you drive like an courier in long trips everyday but it'll take a long time to get money back. There is a power loss and for 4 cylinder if you can get 9 litres per 100kms on Petrol, then on gas you'll be getting roughly 14-15 litres of LPG - lasts you approx 300kms. I'm talking based on my work's ute (Mazda Bravo)

I have seen LPG on L series and EJ series as well including Liberty - the figures above and they do go well with alloy engines and I know Subaru owners brag on about LPG on Subaru.

My 2c worth. Cheers
AP

chriSTIan · Post by **chriSTIan** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:23 pm

I've driven an ea82T on straight gas,was a lot of fun and econmical too.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:31 am

I just had the new gas system fitted (EFI type) and it works a treat!! It's fully programable thro a laptop and very, very little drop in power when on gas... I would say go for it but I'm in WA and I got a $3000 rebate after I had it fitted... My system fitted complete and tuned cost $5500 so it is costly but I'm not planning on selling it.

batesy · Post by **batesy** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:28 pm

yeah we get a 2000 grant in vic at moment, but 5000 is a bit steep....
if i could getit for 2000 it would be a ripper...
cheers

mattl200 · Post by **mattl200** » Sat May 03, 2008 2:42 pm

talk to brumberty he had an ej22 on straight gas in a brumby
no efi and a distributer on the back of one of the heads

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sun May 04, 2008 8:39 am

batesy wrote:yeah we get a 2000 grant in vic at moment, but 5000 is a bit steep....
if i could getit for 2000 it would be a ripper...
cheers

for 2 grand.. you need to read fine print on the rebate papers! Not everyone can.
Cheers
AP

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:43 am

mattl200 wrote:talk to brumberty he had an ej22 on straight gas in a brumby
no efi and a distributer on the back of one of the heads

I remember years ago when I worked for a guy that imported Subaru stuff, we used to get EJ18 engines from the Subaru Legacy and they had a dissy bolted to the back of the engine. Always thought that having this dissy and gas on a EJ22 in a Brumby would be the best setup

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Sun May 04, 2008 2:10 pm

I've seen one or two L's at the wreckers that had gas fitted. All the gear for it was gone but you could still see where the gas was fed into the side of the carbie.

It should go well if you tune your timing to gas and only run on that. My old torana was way out with its timing - very advanced in my opinion, probabily near 30 degrees BTDC, it hated running on petrol (which I never did) but loved the gas

Over summer i'd open up the "adjustment" screw for some more fun while i was working full time then close it a little bit once back at uni.

Good times

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:14 pm

While I was out of the room.... no one said to buzz me...

250 cube Ford dedicated LPG 21 litres 160km done in 1990
EA81 on dedicated LPG in Brumby 540 km to 70 litres done in 2002
EA82T on dedicated LPG in auto sedan 4WD GLTA in the refining process 2008

You wanna retain the power of a carbed donk go straight gas Impco 125 mixer bolts to a gender bender adapter to an AT2 11? throttle body bolts to both my MY and L inlet manifolds. This throttle body may need work to reduce air flow idle speed. Use an Impco J mixer. The dizzy mechanical advance jigger needs brazing to reduce its advance travel to 28 degrees total with initial timing at about 14 degrees. Admittedly the Brumby breathes through a quad throttle set up and has hammered along for 220,000 k or more

rubisubi · Post by **rubisubi** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:26 pm

I have a brand new BF falcon with dedicated gas no petrol, power figures from ford says it has about 150kw compared to 182kw on petrol. You can definately notice the power diff but not enough to worry about for everyday driving, you only notice it under full accel. It uses about 16l/ per 100k around town and 11l/ per 100 on the highway, it does use more but still better off financially. I think in QLD you get 2k back and aftermarket units cost around 2-2.5k to get installed. 5k does sound a fair bit steep.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:21 am

steptoe wrote:While I was out of the room.... no one said to buzz me...

HaHa... Nice 1 but I read... You want power bla bla bla Impco 125 bla bla AT2 11 bla bla Impco J mixer and then something about dizzy mods... LoL

I'd like to know more if you can spare some time to go over what you've found out... Cheers

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:31 am

rubisubi wrote:I think in QLD you get 2k back and aftermarket units cost around 2-2.5k to get installed. 5k does sound a fair bit steep.

Yeah... We have aftermarket kits over here that start at $3300, which work out at only costing you around $300. But these systems use the old venturi ring type that sits above your carby. Those systems loss too much power and economy.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:47 am

dunno if I detect sarcasm there but with a motor as powerful as an EA81 who would notice the percentage loss? Power, or horsepower is measured at flat tit, the drivability of torque is what most will feel in seat of the pants driving and LPG is good smooth torquey fuel delivery, just squeeze pedal more to get the same power - that is why you use more litres per hundred , loosely speaking.

On prices, old basic is cheapest using a mixer ring atop the carby under air box but this usually won't fit under a suby bonnet of std ride height . Dual fuel in this case I ain't done. For simplicity and best tune I go straight gas bolting mixer and adaptor on to manifold. The next dearer system is the efi conversion straight or dual using a mixer ring plumbed in and a control computer ` $3300 to 3500 for a lot of conversions. The $5 ballpark are the latest vapour injection involves more modern stuff and more intensive wiring hook up and if no fuel maps available it needs to be tuned on road or dyno with the laptop - takes time and more money, and I'll be stumped if I could feel the power loss of a Maloo ute between petrol and LPG vapour injection. Then there is the latest and greatest liquid injection with a claimed economy loss of just 3% compared to petrol. It is all advancing in aid of the Euro III and Euro IV emissions standards and economy of course.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:45 am

steptoe wrote:dunno if I detect sarcasm there but with a motor as powerful as an EA81 who would notice the percentage loss? Power, or horsepower is measured at flat tit, the drivability of torque is what most will feel in seat of the pants driving and LPG is good smooth torquey fuel delivery, just squeeze pedal more to get the same power - that is why you use more litres per hundred , loosely speaking.

On prices, old basic is cheapest using a mixer ring atop the carby under air box but this usually won't fit under a suby bonnet of std ride height . Dual fuel in this case I ain't done. For simplicity and best tune I go straight gas bolting mixer and adaptor on to manifold. The next dearer system is the efi conversion straight or dual using a mixer ring plumbed in and a control computer ` $3300 to 3500 for a lot of conversions. The $5 ballpark are the latest vapour injection involves more modern stuff and more intensive wiring hook up and if no fuel maps available it needs to be tuned on road or dyno with the laptop - takes time and more money, and I'll be stumped if I could feel the power loss of a Maloo ute between petrol and LPG vapour injection. Then there is the latest and greatest liquid injection with a claimed economy loss of just 3% compared to petrol. It is all advancing in aid of the Euro III and Euro IV emissions standards and economy of course.

If your asking if there was sarcasm from me? then I'm really sorry if it came out that way...

I'm not like that... I was not sure about all the things you had mentioned about the gas work you had done, I was asking if you could help me with your knowledge ( as I know fck all about gas) as I would like to learn a lot more about it.

I too have the Lastest and Greatest Liquid Injection in my car and agree totally with you, that you can't tell the transition between running on petrol to the time it changes to gas. I would recommend people spend the little extra and have the better system put on.

Really, Really Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:41 pm

always hard to detect any tone of voice in print

If it helps anyone, used gas equipment is cheap and good to play around with just for sizing up to see what fits. Tanks have a 10 year inspection required, every ten from manufacture date stamped on its ID plate rivetted to a housing.

Wreckers are not to sell tanks with gas in them. For the old basic stuff google impco master catalogue has some excellent details.

Gas is sort of a secret gas licenced mechanics business and there are not much in the way of DIY books.

Obtaining a copy of AS1425:2003 is a good start, standard on how stuff is to be fitted up. Some licenced mechanics are happy to help you do most of it yourself if they see you are not stupid. Install all components or make up brackets but need to get them to do the gas line making and fitting.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:44 am

steptoe wrote:always hard to detect any tone of voice in print

Yep.. know what you mean and please don't ever think that way of me

I'm a bit computer illiterate when it comes to expressing myself in words.

S&D-RXTURBO · Post by **S&D-RXTURBO** » Fri May 09, 2008 4:22 pm

I've just got an 86 RX turbo on duel fuel. Runs smoother on gas with very little loss of power. Don't know the cost as it was on there when I got it. Seems to be ok with the efi & turbo. ( a lot of extra weight which I wouldn't mind getting rid of as we are running it in khanacross & eventually rally )