The go with Scorpion 14" wheels ...

[Phizinza]

So you are saying that Subaru went to such drastic engineering efforts to make their car handle perfectly with 55mm pos offset wheels that no other offset will work properly..?
Dude, it was a freakin cheap family wagon (I know you are talking about the RX which is a sedan, but body geometry wise it's just a copy of the wagon).. It wasn't a race car. If you look at the roll radius, the camber, the caster, it's all no where near a performance car. But hey, if you want to spend $$$ on some steel rims, enjoy them.

I also looked into tyre circumference and 195 60 14 works out to be the same as 185 70 13 so in theory no speedo error if you go this way . http://www.michelin.com.au/tyre/pattern ... rgyXM1plus

Not sure if you've had a close look at the door plate, but L series came with 175/70R13's factory, mate.

[sublime]

Not sure if you've had a close look at the door plate, but L series came with 175/70R13's factory, mate.

Of course if you read the tyre placard off an RX you will find it has 185/70 13's from the factory.

[Phizinza]

Of course if you read the tyre placard off an RX you will find it has 185/70 13's from the factory.

Ah ok, good to know.. Cheers.
The RX I saw just had standard 175's on it. Probably came off another Subaru.

[steptoe]

i think the 185 tyre was to match the alloy RX rims

[banger]

i think your getting into it to much. i was also told that you weren't legaly aloud to put a 14" rim on the car by lots of tyre places.
i run the scorpions i think they look awesome on and i don't think the handling of the car changed i first had a set of 185 70 14 in a winter tread. i had issues where for some reason the ratio was funny and my clutch would slip on the sand i run 27" by 8.5 and i haven't had a problem since but my speedo is out about 18kms
i post a pic but havent got any that show them that good but you can look at them on my album

[Gannon]

You are suggesting that a lower offset (making the wheels poke out more) is detrimental to handling.

Is it possible that it will actually be beneficial?

When i went from 13" to 14" Desert rats, i reckon the handling improved.
Maybe because it was a combination of wider track, wider contact patch, more steering wheel feedback and maybe it was even better rubber.

You might be looking too much into this

[discopotato03]

Hello fizz , they (Subaru) could have used a variety of offsets but from the factory work shop manual (87) they (13s) are all the same - 55mm positive .
Now someone here said that the rare 14" alloy wheels are from memory 48P though don't know what tyre profile Subaru specified for them .

When you are a manufacturer you get a lot of say in what you design and manufacturers don't just guess or do things suspension and steering geometry wise for no reason .
I agree that std suspension geometry is hardly idea from a handling point of view and few if any design std road cars to respond like race cars do to driver inputs . Most cars are deliberately designed to under steer so they hit things head on where their most effective crumple zones are . You will always be less likely to walk away from a serious impact when you hit the offending object from the side or rear (of the car you're in) .
And yes I realize that avoiding such impacts is the no 1 priority but it goes on all the time unfortunately .

I'm sure we've been down the road with this topic before but anyhow .
An L or MY is designed so that the engine and transmission gets pushed down under the floor pan if you connect with that 30 tonne concrete block hard enough . You'd be kissing your lower limbs goodbye if they didn't .
Now as we know L/MY have compression rods meaning the radius/caster rods are behind the lower control arms and these have to bend/twist so the engine/trans/axles/wheels all fold up and go under . Safety legislation at its best and so ultimate handling wasn't the no 1 priority .

Those who raced the things when current said where allowed adjustable strut tops made it easy to pull the tops of the struts inwards and backwards to dial out the positive camber and increase positive caster . Obviously the strut foot via the ball joint stays pretty close to std and all you've done is take out the std under steer characteristics .
You average stand on the brake when pain is imminent driver would probably find the back coming around far more easily because the front tyres grip more possibly allowing more weight transfer and the back going light and wanting to get you there first .

Wheel offset . Like was mentioned earlier having zero scrub radius is good because the steering will be light and bump loads on one side only will put less forces back through to the steering wheel - less likely to rip the wheel from your grip sending you into the panel shop .
Another factor is that not all Ls had power assisted steering so the type of geometry that reduces under steer makes the steering effort greater . Not every small car driver has powerful biceps or would put up with heavy steering .
Soo when you fit aftermarket wheels with the wrong offset you get heavier steering/more bump steer/greater loads into the wheel bearings/illegal projections beyond the bodywork . I'm not saying that I'm holy art than thou but its not hard to think that the advantages outweighed the advantages .

Yep L Series RX Turbos had 185 60 13" tyres std , mine still has its original "H" style wheels on it .
My control arms are spaced forward something like 15mm on the compression rods so I have more positive caster than std , the control arm bushes don't like this so not something that will last forever .
My anti roll bars are 24 and 22mm instead of the factory 19 and 16 so it doesn't roll about anything like it did when it was std , corners much flatter meaning it has a lot more roll stiffness . Really the rear bar needs to be 24 and it was only done 22 because it was thought that the bush hoops weren't strong enough - and they were not until replaced by better ones .
Now that I'm nearly sure its staying 4 stud the adjustable urethane cushioned strut tops can go in and I can get sane front geometry - provided there is enough adjustment . Methinks neutral camber with 5-7 degrees positive caster would be nice and about 1-2mm toe out .

All that aside , I rang Scorpion again this afternoon and they said that they have not sold any of these wheels for about 6 years . I'll bet heaps of Desert Rats and Speedys have been bolted on in that time ...
Anyway Scorpion have the center sections but not the rim parts so I'm hoping real hard that I can talk them into getting five made and finished for me .
Good tyres are not cheap in 195 60 14 , Michelin XM1+ are 175 ea and Yokohama C Drive are around 150 . My tyre people tell me that when money isn't the focus buy Michelin , widest carcase in most sizes and they said in this case you really do get the full 195 tread width .

So still pending . I really would have liked a lightweight alloy wheel in the correct offset but they are almost unobtanium .

Still waiting , cheers A .

[banger]

sorry i have speedy rims. have you looked on the classifieds there are coyote rims for $78 dollars with a smaller offset than the speedies personally i would go for them

[Gannon]

Just get the Superlites and be done with it. Can you compensate for the different scrub radius with a camber adjustment?

[discopotato03]

Gannon only if you changed the angle of the hole in the strut foot , it would depend on how much the offset was wrong .
I have not spoken to Performance Wheels but will ring them today . To be in the running their wheel would have to be 14"/not cost 250 ea/have an acceptable offset .

I know everyone likes 15"ones but there's honestly no benefit for me , they'd need something like a 50 or 55 profile tyre and end up being heavier/more unsprung weight .

Remember I have to have five wheels because you can't just throw any sized wheel on an AWD car .

A .

[steptoe]

wonder if there was a scrub radius difference between your 1986 L RX with factory 13" mags and my 1986 L GLTA with steelies? I got it with 13" Cheviot or Aunger Turbo/turbines, run 14 steelies and just found that 15 with 195 50 it tracks a little more than I like

[discopotato03]

Yes I was wondering which profile 15's you had in those pics .

The Sydney rep for Performance wanted to tell me that these 15 x 6 wheels don't fit outside the bodywork . I think he may have seen them on an MY or Brumby but as we know they are different to L Series cars .

Still waiting to hear from Scorpion in QLD .

Cheers A .

[Gannon]

I posted pics of Jono's red RX in the last page. It shows a prefect view of how much they stick out.

Why do you need a full size spare? Just use a normal 13" wheel with a tyre size with the equivalent rolling diameter as your 14" alloys? It will save you heaps

[steptoe]

stick out same as on brumby on the front

[discopotato03]

The end has come for Scorpion Subaru's four stud 14" steel wheels .
Scorpion are no longer making them I understand because there is no demand for them and production costs are no longer realistic .

Another dead end , cheers Adrian .

One more for Fizz .
For the record yes the correct wheel offset is very important because the things that get overloaded beyond manufacturers ADR'd spec are ball joints/wheel bearings/shock absorber side loads they are not intended to take .

A .

[Alex]

that offset thing is utter crap. My l-series had the speedy 14inch rims on it from new pretty much (receipts to back it up)

20 years later and with 340km on the clock (add 10% for bigger tyres its whole life) so close to 400k the car had no problems. Everything was replaced die to old age and wear rather than 10mm of extra offset on the rim.

alex

[discopotato03]

When a wheel sticks out past the guards its gonna be more than 10mm out on the offset , more like 20 + .
If you could do a back to back with the 14" Rally wheels you'd feel the difference straight away .

Your call , people who race or rally seriously get the correct offset wheels - hence the factory 14's .

A .

[coxy]

that offset thing is utter crap. My l-series had the speedy 14inch rims on it from new pretty much (receipts to back it up)

20 years later and with 340km on the clock (add 10% for bigger tyres its whole life) so close to 400k the car had no problems. Everything was replaced die to old age and wear rather than 10mm of extra offset on the rim.

alex

Wheel offset is not utter crap,having built and driven Rally cars for longer than I care to think about people are aware of the negative effect the wrong offset has.Sure in some instances the factory overengineers components so there will not be reliability issues,but to much offset will increase the leverage and where you will feel this is steering wheel kickback on rough terrain.
The result can mean broken thumbs as the steering wheel reacts violently to the wheel hitting a bump,the problem with changing wheel offset is rarely can we find enough or any adjustment to compensate.
I have spent a full week adjusting the pickup points for a double wishbome front suspension on a Cobra race car involving cutting off the original mounting points and relocating them as needed temporarily and then running the suspension through full travel on a four post hoist with the wheel alignment jig reading the toe changes.
It started out with a Toe change of 38mm between static ride height and full droop and a change of 21mm under full compression,it ended up with 2mm variation from fully compressed to full droop.
This means that when the car became either airborne or very light on the suspension when it landed it no longer tried to spear off the road in an unpredictable manner,most cars do not have the benefit of having this type of effort expended on them and this is where the correct offset wheels are vital to keep the car controllable under any expected driving conditions.
The faster or more extreme the conditions are the more important this becomes,and this is why people used to run 5.5 inch front rims on rear wheel drive rally cars to keep the affects of steering kickback to a minimum by remaining as close to factory offset as possible.
If you do not believe me then make some radical toe adjustment to your car and go for a short drive,then you will change your mind about the affects of steering geometry and wheel offset.