Impreza 2004 RS clutch problem... I think

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:16 pm

I'm hoping someone can shed some light on a problem I have with my Subaru Impreza 2004 RS.. I bought this car 14 months ago and it drove immaculately until I put it in for clutch work as the bearing was making some noise.. they replaced the entire clutch and it hasnt driven the same ever since.. the problems I note are:

1) clutch shudder when taking off and also if releasing the clutch from third to 2nd when decelerating.

2) Heavier feel to clutch pedal

3) Gears esp reverse and 1st 2nd sometimes reluctant to go into gear.

and 4) the one of great debate is when coasting especially under 70kms and the lower gears when I take my foot of the accelerator or put it on the accelerator the car often times goes with a jerk...

The mechanic who carried out this job is reluctant to accept any responsibility as he says the 4th problem cant be clutch related as the clutch is locked in at this time and cant be the cause of this problem... And he seems hell bent on labelling it as an engine management problem... hard to believe since there was no problem pre-clutch work.

However the two foremans at subaru who drove the car say this is untrue and an incorrect pressure plate (with stronger than standard diaphragm springs) can create this jerking effect regardless of foot on the clutch or not.

I reported these problems on the day my car was returned to me and the mechanic said it would probably sort itself out after a few weeks.. none of which has happened...

I am interested in hearing from anyone who is a clutch or subi guru who may have encountered or heard of the above problems being related to the clutch and pressure plate...

Thanks in advance

Petero

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:16 pm

Hi Petero and welcome to AUSubaru

I'm going to side with you and say that it all sounds like a clutch problem

I would first ask though, what was done when the clutch was fitted... i.e. flywheel machined, brand of clutch (cheap or not?) and were they a Subaru mechanic or clutch group?

If you're not happy with the work you've paid for then it's best to ask Fair Trading, they will guide you in the best direction.

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:48 pm

Welcome to Ausubaru,
Hmm not right there, my money would be either flywheel or pressure plate either one of these two, it is true that pressure plate can be faulty workmanship as ive heard of it. Pressureplate could be mis-aligned?

Flywheel - was it machined or as it is?
It is possible that they might've put wrong clutch in, was it subaru certified or 3rd party mechanic that fitted the clutch?
Cheers
AP

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:28 am

Hey RSR 555 and AlpineRaven and thanks for replying so soon...

I know the flywheel wasn't machined as this was detected by the subi foreman and when I went back and asked the mechanic (whom is a 3rd party mechanic by the way) he didn't deny it.
The mechanic says the clutch he used to replace the one he removed was daiken exedy, I believe this is true as he actually found the box for it laying around, also the box now contained my previous exedy clutch in it.

So I think it is the right one exedy FJK-7626..

But to get a bit more technical with you the engine in my car may not be the one it was factory fitted with as this one has variable valve timing which is not hooked up as my 2004 RS's computer is not equipped for this engine.
The mechanic has tried to use this as an excuse for the jerking problem but I know its not that as I drove the car for 2 months after I bought it (and before I had him install the new clutch) and the car was a dream to drive.

The mechanic is going to pull the whole thing apart again later this week... I am going to be there as I want to see what clutch etc comes out and compare it to the one the previously took out.. perhaps the two will be different and the fact the engine has variable valve timing might indicate that the engines are different enough to require different clutchs?? your thoughts on that?

If the clutch is the wrong one or faulty etc I feel it wont cost me but of course if it is the right one etc it will cost me... I'm not too concerned about it either way.. I just want the car to drive the way it used to.

The $64 000 is can a pressure plate cause the car to jerk on acceleration and deceleration when only applying the throttle and with my foot nowhere near the clutch... the subi guys are saying yes (usually caused by heavy duty pressure plate and/or heavier diaphragm springs) ... whereas the mechanic and his clutch supplier both say they have never heard of that being the case... and say once the pressure plate etc is locked in it could not cause this to happen... your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:38 am

Ok Petero.. I'd say that 90% of the shuddering/jerking is coming from the unmachined flywheel and something else

I'd say the clutch pressure plate and friction disc will be fine but I'd be getting a Subaru mechanic to go over the whole engine/gearbox and make sure all the plugs and stuff are connected. It sounds like something wasn't connected back up right.

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:57 am

Thanks RSR555 the thing is when I took it to subi the foreman put his foot on the clutch pedal and said straight away there was something up with the pressure plate (wrong one or performance or faulty as the pedal was too hard... Its not overly hard... just a bit harder than the previous one.

If the problem continues even after this coming week when the mechanic pulls the clutch out I will be taking it to subaru to get them to work on it.. obviously it will cost more but I definitely felt reassured by their superior understanding of this car...
but I'm hoping the problem is found when the mechanic takes it apart again.

Also RSR555 I suggested to the mechanic that something was maybe not reassembled correctly the first time... he said this wasnt the case (of course) but he did show me all the mounts etc and they all looked good and hooked up... I know there are still electrics etc that may not be hooked up and I will look for that when he does the job... but im hoping its all the fault of the clutch.

Also RSR555 are you saying that the jerking during initial accelerating and deceleration (without foot on clutch pedal) could be attributed to the flywheel not being machined?

Also does it go without saying that when having a clutch replaced that the flywheel must be machined?

Thanks alot.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:41 am

If the pressure plates wasn't fitted correctly then yes it can.. also because the flywheel isn't machined then the clamping pressure instep is not there.. plus the combination of the possibly the wrong model clutch installed could mean the clutch is not holding but all this is subject to inspection.

When I was thinking plugs and stuff.. I was thinking that something may have been knocked off the engine, not sure why they would be off but you never know what they have done?

As for the heavy feeling.. I would say it's from the release bearing not sliding easily along the gearbox housing.. maybe from no lubrication

Let us know how it goes

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:26 am

Will do.. your a good man... thanks for sharing your knowledge.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:53 pm

No problems Petero.. it's all for the greater good

Cheers,
Paul

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:51 pm

The other case of jerking issues is pretty common in Subarus - but if its not clutch related - forget what i said.
Jerking while cruising along (without touching clutch/gears etc) - MAF is the blame. (that square thingo after the airbox often gets dirty then ECU gets confused.)
Cheers
AP

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:07 pm

Thanks AP, The mechanic removed the device you speak of... if it's what I'm thinking about.. it was a few screws on top of the engine intake area... and sprayed it with some sort of cleaner... The thing is the all the problems I speak of were not there one day and then the next day the clutch went in and all the problems were there..

I also had the rear diff drained and new fluid put in incase the problem was coming from there..

2 more days and I will find out the truth... And I will be staying at the mechs all day to see what sort of clutch comes out and what condition it is in.

In other news I was behind a sunday motorist today when at the last minute he decided to hit the picks for a side street (no indicator), I was able to pull up no worries.... but the motorbike rider behind me didnt do so well so now I have his tyre imprint (and some paint loss) on my rear bumper... oh well.. thought I would share that.. Have a great sunday night AP and Paul

Petero

SUBYDAZZ · Post by **SUBYDAZZ** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:13 am

Keep us posted. I'd be interested to hear about whether your model has a dual-mass flywheel and if that has anything to do with your issues.

RSR 555 · Post by **RSR 555** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:49 am

SUBYDAZZ wrote:Keep us posted. I'd be interested to hear about whether your model has a dual-mass flywheel and if that has anything to do with your issues.

Yeah.. this can be an issue too.. even more so than a problem with the clutch itself

most times when the dualmass flywheel goes it makes a horrible rattling sound but I'm thinking you might be right here Subadazz

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:52 pm

Gday Subadazz and Paul

The clutch is not dual mass... it has springs in the pressure plate.. I saw the box belonging to the clutch the mech purchased to put in my subi and he had put my old clutch etc in that box... as far as I can tell he bought the right one... FDK 7626 exedy.. so as Paul said I am leaning towards the flywheel not being machined and/or other parts of the install... I am at the mechanics at 8am tomorrow and not leaving till I see what comes out of the car when he pulls it apart.. will keep you posted and very grateful for all the feedback given.. very educated comments.. thanks heaps.

Petero

AlpineRaven · Post by **AlpineRaven** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:16 pm

Atkinson wrote:Gday Subadazz and Paul

The clutch is not dual mass... it has springs in the pressure plate.. I saw the box belonging to the clutch the mech purchased to put in my subi and he had put my old clutch etc in that box... as far as I can tell he bought the right one... FDK 7626 exedy.. so as Paul said I am leaning towards the flywheel not being machined and/or other parts of the install... I am at the mechanics at 8am tomorrow and not leaving till I see what comes out of the car when he pulls it apart.. will keep you posted and very grateful for all the feedback given.. very educated comments.. thanks heaps.

Petero

That is what we're here for.. keep us updated as we wanna learn as well!
Cheers
AP

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:08 pm

Gday

Im totally confused now... the clutch and pressure plates were pulled out and there didnt appear to be much visual difference between my previous clutch/pressure plates and the ones that came out today... Although I found out the clutch/pressure plate that were pulled from the car today were to suit a flex flywheel.. And the flywheel in my car is apparently a dual mass flywheel, I took pictures of the flywheel and took them to subaru where it was identified as a dual mass flywheel.

I was also told that a subi dual mass flywheel can't be machined and cost $2300 new... so now I am wondering what my options are...

Im leaning towards a solid mass flywheel and getting the correct clutch/pressure plate to match... or is there a reputable distributor of dual mass flywheels for subis with a slightly more friendly price to them?

I have the pics of my flywheel and would be happy to send them to anyone if they would like to 100% verify that it is in fact a dual mass flywheel.

Thanks as always.

Petero

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:16 pm

Can get a solid flywheel conversion
Gives you a solid flywheel and clutch to suit
Post the pic up on here so we can all have a look
Dual mass flywheels do serve a purpose though
Google it before you make a decision

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:32 pm

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:48 pm

I have posted the pics in my public gallery... please let me know what you think?

Dual Mass or Solid?

Atkinson · Post by **Atkinson** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:29 pm

Hey.. Im told this is a dual mass flywheel by the main guy at subi service dept... is this true?