Swaybars with lift kits

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:40 pm

Hi All,

I'm considering a 1" Subtle Lift Kit and King spring lift on my04 Forester after reading some treads on forums however I haven't seen much info on quality of ride after such a lift. Would love some feed back on around town handeling. And if handeling is poor should struttower braces and/or swaybars need considering?

Clogs

pezimm · Post by **pezimm** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:43 pm

Hi clogs,

Welcome to AUSubaru.com!!

I've got a 1in Subtle lift installed at the moment and I can tell you that the handling doesn't change much. You need to be peaky to notice the difference.

I believe the king springs will make more of a difference, presuming you're going for the +30mm heavy duty ones... I believe they are harder springs, which would definitely affect the ride. Nevertheless, I'll be going that direction in the future! So maybe I can ask you for opinions later on??

Good luck!
Pedro.

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:02 pm

Thanks Pedro,

I asume the harder springs would be needed to compensate for body roll, wouldn't you say. Hope some one has it fitted already cause I would like to know before I go for the big dive into the wallet.

Mat.

pezimm · Post by **pezimm** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:53 pm

clogs wrote:I asume the harder springs would be needed to compensate for body roll, wouldn't you say.

Well, actually, what I understand of the +30mm Kings is that they are the same length as stock, so the lift is obtained by the tougher spring not compressing as much when loaded with the vehicle's weight.

There certainly are people around here which have them fitted and they'll be more qualified to comment on ride quality.

From what I've read and seen, for our generation Foresters it seems the sweet combination is King Springs and KYB struts!! You don't have to change your struts, unless you have (like me) rear SLS.

Pedro.

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:15 pm

Wow, thanks Pedro. I thought I'd have to change the struts as well. This is because the springs are the same height right? It is my understanding then that it won't give me any more than the 1in lift from the Subtle lift! I was kind of hoping for more than that.

Mat.

p.s Nice ride mate.

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:57 am

Have a look at Dobinson springs, I've just fitted them & they are brilliant , no problems with self leveling suspension & excellent ride.

pezimm · Post by **pezimm** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:42 pm

clogs wrote:Wow, thanks Pedro. I thought I'd have to change the struts as well. This is because the springs are the same height right? It is my understanding then that it won't give me any more than the 1in lift from the Subtle lift! I was kind of hoping for more than that.

Mat.

p.s Nice ride mate.

Mat,

You will get your +30mm extra lift with the kings!!:-D Even though they are the same size as stock, the extra stiffness makes them compress a little less (around 30mm less) when installed in the car. So overall, with Kings and 1in spacers, you should be getting +60/+65mm additional clearance!!!

Pedro.

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:00 pm

Oh right... well that's plenty. Let's hope we get some feedback from someone who has this set up. I might just put the spacers in like you have for now.

Thanks heaps Pedro

Mat.

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:42 pm

I have too been considering some raised kings in my Outback, along with some new KYB's. But i want to know, being stiffer, will they reduce body roll around corners, even though the car is sitting over an inch higher?

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:03 pm

pezimm wrote:Mat,

You will get your +30mm extra lift with the kings!!:-D Even though they are the same size as stock, the extra stiffness makes them compress a little less (around 30mm less) when installed in the car. So overall, with Kings and 1in spacers, you should be getting +60/+65mm additional clearance!!!

Pedro.

Hey Pedro,

Paid Bursons a visit, they are a King springs supplier. The sales rep said that the raised springs will give a 20 - 30mm lift. He also mentioned that the shockers won't need replacing as you said. Got a price of $130 a pair. Front part# KSFR-32SP and Rear is KSRR-43. I think thats a pretty good price cause he said they retailed at $175 a pair.

Unfortunately he couldn't shine a light on drive quality. Nor did he have an opinion on tower tentioners or swaybars.

Mat.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:43 pm

Hey peeps

The springs are 'heavy duty', not 'raised'. Once installed onto the strut they are the exact same overall height... The original springs have about 3 spirals, whereas the heavy duties have about 5, and the diameter of the steel itself is a bit thicker. If you do the install yourself you will feel the difference when compression the springs.

By virtue of being stiffer springs, the weight of the car does not affect the suspesion as much, i.e. it does not sag as much when compared to the originals. You should not think of your car as being 'raised' by the springs, rather you should think that the car now 'sags less'. They are not making your strut taller, they are making your car sag less for the original weight.

These are heavy duty, stiffer springs, so of course they are going to change the ride of your car. They are designed for heavy duty use... That is the design brief - more weight, harder driving, harsher conditions. If you do not tick those boxes on a regular basis, then you might not be happy with the ride.

I had HD king springs in my '92 liberty and they were brilliant. I liked the stiffer ride, it rolled about the same into corners, even without the sway bars attached and a 3" lift.

They are now in my unlifted '97 outback after running with the original set up for a few months. I have a bull bar on the front, regularlly carry 3 or 4 passengers and 4 kayaks on the roof, trailer, camping gear the lot. I live and work in the outdoors, drive on rough and dirt roads a lot and drive hard on tarmac with a fully loaded car... and I seriously rate the springs, brilliant sporty ride despite load, and just as good with only a little bit of crap in the back.

When I wrote off my lib, one of the factors in loosing the back end in the stutter bumps was the fact that I had HD springs installed without adequate preload in the rear (too little weight), which caused it to skip instead of slide.

Buy heavy duty springs to make your car handle better when heavily loaded, to sag less when loaded, and effectively raise your car 1" by eliminating sag, but obviously remember if you are not using it for heavy duty use then it might not be ideal.

In terms of sway bars, fitting HD springs makes no change to the strut length so sway bars will still li e up, although it might be a little bit harder with the !" Subtle. Ride quality will be stiffer. You could consider trying to fit impreza sway bar (I think it's less stiff?) to compensate, but what would be the point in that as your installing for a more sporty and stiffer ride?

I rate the heavy duty springs as it suits my usage and driving style and am willing to accept a bit of extra bounce when driving unloaded.

Hope that helps,
Owen.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:18 pm

Suparoo wrote:I have too been considering some raised kings in my Outback, along with some new KYB's. But i want to know, being stiffer, will they reduce body roll around corners, even though the car is sitting over an inch higher?

They did with my L series even after I installed the 3 inch lift - and the rears turned out to be a little soft for my liking (after a honda spring mod)

ScubyRoo wrote:They are now in my unlifted '97 outback after running with the original set up for a few months. I have a bull bar on the front, regularlly carry 3 or 4 passengers and 4 kayaks on the roof, trailer, camping gear the lot. I live and work in the outdoors, drive on rough and dirt roads a lot and drive hard on tarmac with a fully loaded car... and I seriously rate the springs, brilliant sporty ride despite load, and just as good with only a little bit of crap in the back.

Yeah I can back ScubyRoo up on this load claim - saw him last year after one of his kayaking trips down the Mitta Mitta fully loaded! I can now see why he has the "wings" roof racks!

Cheers

Bennie

pezimm · Post by **pezimm** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:34 pm

ScubyRoo wrote:Hey peeps

The springs are 'heavy duty', not 'raised'. Once installed onto the strut they are the exact same overall height... The original springs have about 3 spirals, whereas the heavy duties have about 5, and the diameter of the steel itself is a bit thicker.

That's what I was trying to say, but couldn't find the words!

ScubyRoo wrote:They are not making your strut taller, they are making your car sag less for the original weight.

Yes, agree, but by sagging less, the struts are further extended when when fitted with regular springs. This is the reason why King Springs don't work with SLS. The spring wants to extend the strut, while it's trying to return to it's original position.

I'd imagine the biggest issue with the HD springs is that you loose some down-travel on your wheels, making it easier to get them off the ground when in uneven terrain.

Cheers,
Pedro.

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Thanks Gents,

Thanks ScubyRoo for your feedback. I couldn’t imagine loading up the Fossie too much so the springs probably wouldn’t be the ideal thing for me. I just want enough clearance to get to my fishing spots and not lose too much of the standard drive quality (don't want body roll).

What would you suggest I do? I was hoping to lift it 2”.

Mat.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:16 am

pezimm wrote: Yes, agree, but by sagging less, the struts are further extended than when fitted with regular springs. This is the reason why King Springs don't work with SLS. The spring wants to extend the strut, while it's trying to return to it's original position.

Ah okay. Clegs, perhaps call King Springs they're very helpful and will be able to suggest what is most suitable to your needs.

pezimm wrote: I'd imagine the biggest issue with the HD springs is that you loose some down-travel on your wheels, making it easier to get them off the ground when in uneven terrain.

I'm guessing by down travel you mean a lengthening of the shock? I suppose this is logical... although if the opposite wheel is pushing harder upward it might be serving to push the lifting wheel down? Besides, if your car is loaded they behave like normal anyway. And you reduce inside wheel lift on tarmac because there's less body roll. I never managed to light up an inside wheel in my lib when those springs were in, even with my 3" lift. But then, I don't have a turbo forester do I

clogs wrote:Thanks Gents,

Thanks ScubyRoo for your feedback. I couldn’t imagine loading up the Fossie too much so the springs probably wouldn’t be the ideal thing for me. I just want enough clearance to get to my fishing spots and not lose too much of the standard drive quality (don't want body roll).

What would you suggest I do? I was hoping to lift it 2”.

Mat.

A 2" lift could be great. I had a 3" in my liberty and it was a beast!

As I said I felt my ride was improved with the HD springs as I liked the stiffer and sportier ride. You're going to reduce body roll with stiffer springs... I had the sway bars disconnected and didn't notice any difference. As I said above, call King Springs and see what they think, compatibility with SLS etc.

As you seen with Pedro's ride, a 1" subtle and slightly larger tires can give a nice bit of lift. It takes some effort, but with taller lift kits you can get the sway bars to reconnect. Around town you probably won't notice much difference, in the country you might get a little bit more roll as your car's centre of gravity will be higher, however the sway bars should mitagate that. I had the HD springs in from the start and no sway bars connected, so can't offer a comparison but can say I was happy with the results, and I drive with enthusiasm

longy99gt · Post by **longy99gt** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:10 pm

if your still want to lift it, and maintain your handling in the turbo forester, put the 1" subtle lift in, then either increase to your tire size, or put in the HD springs for a sportier, less saggy ride, and if your want to reduce body roll you should be able to replace the original sway bar with one from an impreza WRX as its thicker, that will noticeably control body roll, but reduce articulation off road, making it easier to get a wheel off the ground offroad, after that you can install a quick release pin on your sway bar, so when you go off road you can easily unclip the sway bar link, giving you maximum articulation, speak to "lefty" thats on here as he has some quick release clips,

on my car (99GT) i have got a 2" lift, and the largest tires i can squeeze in, so i have achieved a 3" lift, and i have an upgraded rear sway bar, to reduce body roll, but with a 12yr old car and heavy loads i have killed my suspension, i have replaced the front struts with original stuff, and the front is back nice and high, where as the rear is so low that its back to where it was unraised, (looks funny), so soon i will be replacing the rear struts, and probably getting in the HD springs, to reduce sag, i'll end up with almost 4" lift with HD springs, but i'll stick with the 3" lift i have for now, until finances say otherwise.

Longy,

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:39 pm

[quote="ScubyRoo"]Hey peeps

When I wrote off my lib, one of the factors in loosing the back end in the stutter bumps was the fact that I had HD springs installed without adequate preload in the rear (too little weight), which caused it to skip instead of slide.

Hi Owen,

After you mentioned the above quote I was concerned putting the HD springs in my car cause I rarely carry a load when I’m driving through the bush. I guess it's up to my driving style isn't it. Just have to take it a bit easy on dirt.

I have had lowered cars before and I like the stiff handling. Didn’t think it would be like that when you’d lift a car (bit of a novice). I don't have to worry about SLS either which is a bonus.

I appreciate the advice
Mat.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:42 pm

Hey matt, it was one factor but not the sole cause. The road itself was in poor condition and my speed through the corner was probably about 25% too fast, I think it was those two that made up about 75% of the problem, I may have manage to come through the corner ok if it only slid and not skipped.

Perhaps renewing the rear suspension might be a better option? New struts and standard springs?

clogs · Post by **clogs** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:01 pm

My car has only done 70k plus I'm not that keen in spending big bucks. Could I use a 2'' strut spacer or is that dodgy? I have only found the 1" type though.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:03 pm

There are many lifted subarus getting around with 2 inch strut tops and heavy duty king springs to raise their offroader. This will change the CV angles but is not detrimental.

Also remember that being lifted means a higher centre of gravity which might change things for you, this is where the kings help too.

That road that ScubyRoo's talking about was very dangerous and I probably led him on a little as I was the convoy leader. I was lucky, unfortunately ScubyRoo wasn't...

Cheers

Bennie