2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

[Mess]

I wouldn't try lifting off the throttle in a corner on a dirt road if the DSC is deactivated. It's quite disconcerting enough with it active (see my post in the "diesel tuning" thread) that I didn't try it button-deactivated.

I'm pretty sure you can't turn DSC off, despite what the book says. I've driven a dirt road with it 'off' and it still stops the tail kicking out. No fun at all.

[skipalami]

Mess,

I am really pleased that they have finally treated you properly with regards to the shudder and given you an answer that admits that they are aware of the problem.

The message is finally getting through that these cars just aren't behaving as they should.

[teye]

Never a shudder or a flicking light or any issue whatsoever touch wood.
2010 ( feb build I think) outback diesel in Perth. The engine runs and spins up like a sewing machine I can't fault it. It certainly seems to do a lot of thinking ie a lot of background CPU action but when it's on song it reminds me of my old turbo falcon xr6 aside from the 17l/100km that used.
I just need to make a couple of points I do use a fuel additive moreys this time and previously Chemtec which make a point of reducing engine soot.
Oil was changed at 6000 also. But I have always and will continue to "drive it " not like I stole it but I do give the flat foot plenty, these are not a lugging diesel there a revving passenger vehicle diesel obviously designed with Sporting nature, they need a rev so rev it hard, they run better for it and use no more stinky oil in the process. If it shudders change gear and flog it, there's no spark plugs it can only be fueling.
I feel these are not the car to run around trying set fuel economy records in, they're designed for Europe and hard driving ever noticed how well they cruise at 120kmh in 6th no coincidence that 70mph sweet spot.

[pitrack_1]

Teye,

for the most part you are right, especially regarding the engine 'revability', I've been meaning to say that myself, just couldn't express it as well as you! And I drive mine similarly to you.

But these vehicles for the most part are sold in urban areas and subject to urban driving conditions. They will not be driven in Oz by persons as obviously knowledgeable as you (or Europeans ) w.r.t diesels.

They therefore need to be designed to cope with the market clientèle- often in this case urbanised populations with stop-start, short city driving. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be selling the vehicles there.

Besides, there should be no shuddering. Or warning lights popping up willy-nilly- I've had them, Mess has had them (twice) and someone else I know has had them whilst towing a trailer (maybe a grounding issue...but maybe not).

[pitrack_1]

Latest...

If I could turn back time, I'd buy an Xtrail diesel or Skoda Octavia Scout.

Errr, bad news on the Xtrail/Pathfinder front- was in at an auto-electrician to pick up my Old Blue Bomb ( '90 Pulsar ).

In the shop was a new Pathfinder- bonnet up, bits out- I asked the auto-electrician, who said it had no end of trouble- it (apparently) had spent 50 hrs at the dealer, who had now sent it to the auto-electrician to sort out. Oops!

[teye]

mmm yeah its easy to see things only through your own experience, in hindsght a true automatic system should need no thought or action from a driver, if subaru responded to me i had caused an issue through incorrect driving technique ie changing gear in accordance with the gear change indicator I would be paying my court application fee very quickly, particulalrly when i see a recomendation from subaru oz that gear changes should occur over 2000rpm and over 60 into 4th ( perhaps ill send any speeding tickets for 3kmh over straight to them).

[Mess]

Forester back after an overnighter at the dealer. Engine light caused by glow plugs. Apparently two of the four glow plugs were falling apart. Wtf? Anyway, all four glowplugs hhave been replaced.

[littlewhiteute]

The Subaru engine has glow plugs?

Every direct injection common rail electronic diesel I work on does not have or need glow plugs.

[Gannon]

I dont understand why they cant have an auto.

The WRX, Forester XT and Liberty GT all had auto transmissions and produced similar torque levels to the Diesel.

[Falco80]

I just need to make a couple of points I do use a fuel additive moreys this time and previously Chemtec which make a point of reducing engine soot.
Oil was changed at 6000 also.

Did you drop the oil yourself teye? The only thing that stopped me from doing an oil change around 6k was how to go about resetting the oil dilution ratio - which i'm guessing would be important?

But I have always and will continue to "drive it " not like I stole it but I do give the flat foot plenty, these are not a lugging diesel there a revving passenger vehicle diesel obviously designed with Sporting nature, they need a rev so rev it hard, they run better for it and use no more stinky oil in the process. If it shudders change gear and flog it, there's no spark plugs it can only be fueling.
I feel these are not the car to run around trying set fuel economy records in, they're designed for Europe and hard driving ever noticed how well they cruise at 120kmh in 6th no coincidence that 70mph sweet spot.

Totally agree teye. I drive mine hard, but not stupidly, and it seems to just eat up the hills we have around here. IMHO if you lug this engine below 2000rpm you are just asking for headaches in the future. I like to work the engine, but then i also like the fact that if needed i can drive for economy and get awesome range. For some reason though i feel like i'm doing the engine more harm than good, if i drive sedately for too long without giving it wide-open-throttle. These hi-tech diesels will be a bit of a gamble for people in the second-hand car market years down the track i reckon.

[Mess]

Aaarrrrrrggh


I picked the Foz up on Friday after it spent the night the dealership. Engine light stayed off. Sat morning, guess what...the engine and stability control lights are on again! What a f***n lemon. Oh well back to the dealership again.

[teye]

No does low Kays so service was done at 6000

[pitrack_1]

Mess,

I really feel for you and I think you have the patience of a Saint...by now I probably would have done to the dealer (or perhaps Subaru) what that guy in a Pajero did to Parliament house a few years ago!

Maybe this time you go back you could get them to tell you what codes they read out that are causing (or at least part of) the problem, at least you can keep a log. It may be worthwhile to see if they repeat or there's some pattern.

With your ongoing multiple issues it may be worth an approach to ACAT (if you bought in the ACT) to see if you can register an issue or get some advice- this may help with tracking or resolution in the future. Subaru may also take further notice if they know a government body is watching! Unfortunately, they are limited to $10k so a lot less than the (paper) value of your vehicle.

Best of luck, and I really do hope they sort your vehicle properly for you ASAP.

[pitrack_1]

Has anyone had a 'clunk' or 'thunk' accelerating through ~2500rpm?

Well I went for a bit of a burn today and it reinforced how well the Forester seems to soak up lumpy bitumen. It especially seems to stop the car getting badly floaty over drop-aways. But once again I had the (empty) rear skip/hop over a quick cross-road bump.

The road was sealed and variously straight through winding, flat, climbing and descending. Speeds from 40 up to 100km/h. Cool weather (~12-14C), road variously dry through damp/wet. As such, I got to test out various things.

But back to the title- Several times the car did 'thunk', like a single shudder. The main ones seem to happen accelerating (moderately) around or out of a corner through about 2500rpm, where a discernible 'thunk' happened with a change in engine response. Others mainly happened accelerating uphill. Being a country drive, there should hopefully be no active regen-ing going on, nor was any seemingly detected and I did try to keep it within ~1800 - ~2400rpm as much as I could.

[Not Happy Jan !!]

Just an update

Still experiencing problems, had the 25K service done this week and the EGR valve was cleaned.

I towed my boat yesterday which weighs about 1200 kg on a 40 Km round trip, I was sitting on 100 -110 km/h in 5th and just over 2200 rpm. The engine had plenty of power however it felt like it was either missing or running on 3 cylinders the whole time.

Still no answers from Subaru !

[skipalami]

12500km service performed on the Outback 3 weeks ago and no shudder since. My only thought is the ECU was reset so it is learning again.

If history repeats, then we should start to get the shudders again at about 16-17000km. About two weeks from now for me.

Normally I would be happy, however I have a very important shudder demonstration to give in the near future, and the stupid thing won't do it no matter what I do!!

Bloody Murphy!!:mad:

[Mess]

Interestingly, I met a guy from Sydney on Tuesday who has a diesel Outback. He's had it in for the shudder and told me that Subaru are fitting a redesigned EGR valve to his car soon that they hope will solve the problem. It seems that he may be the guinea pig for the possible fix.

Anyway, he's going to let me know how he goes.

Since having the warning light situation sorted on my car, it's been running perfectly. No shudders this week, but it will happen again.

[teye]

Jus googling around it seems shuddering and dpf issues are to be found in everything from a dodge cummins to a fiat pinto it seems overall its an egr dpf coordination issue and regen issues are related to short trips and non ending regen cycles, a couple of comments seemed to indicate also that selling these cars as super fuel efficient directly results in the sort of driving that blocks em up.

[MY11OBD]

Mess I have my car booked in on the 27th for fitting of EGR valve flown in from Japan. Maybe as your friend has suggested this could be one of the redesigned units. Although I had my service, EGR valve cleaned and ECU reset the shudder is still appearing. I will keep an update on how this goes... fingers crossed.

[Ricker]

Jus googling around it seems shuddering and dpf issues are to be found in everything from a dodge cummins to a fiat pinto it seems overall its an egr dpf coordination issue and regen issues are related to short trips and non ending regen cycles, a couple of comments seemed to indicate also that selling these cars as super fuel efficient directly results in the sort of driving that blocks em up.

When I was having my DPF regen problems all my research led to the exact same conclusion as noted above. It was for the fuel economy and high torque that I indeed bought my diesel forester for city driving. Needless to say, I had DPF/regen/oil dilution issues, and come wednesday will have handed back the keys on my diesel and stepped into a FXT.

Though after getting my oil changed on the Diesel, due to the oil dilution, the service center, had the EGR relearned (which they had many problems doing) but since that, I must say I havent had nearly as many regens, and the car has driven much nicer. But even still, not taking my chances with these diesels and their DPF's. Rather pay more in premium (though at the moment its lower than diesel) and have worse fuel economy but have a more reliable car and enjoyable ride.

The savings found in the diesel fully negate themselves when at the 120k mark you'll be looking at replacing the "thorn in my side" DPF filter for a cheap 3k anyway.