2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:37 am

Dropped off the car this morning to have the EGR valve replaced. Fingers crossed...
Over the Easter break did at least 1500km over the 5 days and once got the shudder... As someone suggested the issue seems like a misfire or loss of one cylinder??

I got email confirmation also from Subaru rep. that the Shuuder/DPF issue is being looked at by FHI, now its a matter to wait and see how long it will take to resolve.

Anyone else with some updates?

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:55 am

I've been driving mine like I stole it so shudder hasn't been much of an issue, I've also found that I can accelerate cleanly from about 1500 in 5th and 6th straight through the problem area without shudder it is only when cruising around 2000 that it becomes an issue.

That's the good news, the bad news is that today the check engine and ESC lights are both illuminated so it's back to the dealer again.

Having had a 2nd gen Forester 2.5 and then a Liberty I'm not at all happy about the electrics in the diesel.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:28 am

Not that anyone having shelled out a few dollars for these beasts want to spend any more serius money on them...wondering if an LPG 'conversion' for them would help. Diesel gas does not switch to LPG instead of Diesel - it adds LPG vapour to the air prior to Diesel being injected. Cleans up emissions and economy it is claimed. Smaller, way smaller cylinders are used for holding the LPG as not much is used.

Just a thought that came to mind.....

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:53 am

Suthol, you are correct...

Driving the car like you stole it will keep the temps up and minimise any DPF regen... It still happens and like has a brain of its own, but less.

Regarding the shudder, it does seem that when you are crusing is where the problem in happening...

We can only hope to see what FHI come back with....

The car is great other than the DPF / Shudder issues... I only want these issues resolved before the word gets out and the value of the car decreases due to reliability and the like forming in the latter years...

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:02 pm

Just picked up my car, the report said "PLEASE REPLACE EGR VALVE", diagnositic on the report "FOUND ENGINE MISFIRING AND RUNNING ROUGH, DIAGNOSE DUE TO FAULTY EGR VALVE. REMOVED AND REPLACED EGR VALVE, CARRIED OUT RELEARN AND ROAD TEST ALL OKAY".

Now I will test and see what happens from here:

Basically I will:
1. Ensure car is driven and gears changed all aobe 2000 rpm
2. 3rd Gear up to 60km/hr
3. 4th Gear up to 80 km/hr
4. 5th Gear on 100 km/hr
5. Only 6th Gear at 110 km/hr

Only time will tell if this has fixed the issue.. Fingers crossed... Will update in few days time...

tasla · Post by **tasla** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:25 pm

Hi everybody,

I believe I will be the first owner form the Netherlands to report this problem on this forum. I bought Subaru Legacy Tourer 2.0 Diesel last July. The shudder started after 6.500 km (end of August) and it does not happened too often. It freaked me out at the beginning. The engine felt like misfiring, so I went to the dealer and they told me exactly the same things you guys were reporting. But I guess I was determined enough and they finally put me in the system and reported the problem to Subaru Benelux and Subaru Europe. What’s really insane, is the Subaru Europe and Subaru Australia are not in the same communication line, so if somebody finds a solution to a problem, others will never know until FHI confirms it. I really hope they will solve the problem, as I really like the car.

I had one shudder last week, but then I went on a small trip to Ardennes and was driving it above 120 km/h for a longer period of time and then took a lot of uphill village roads and now the engine works as it suppose to.

Thanks very much for opening this forum. It helped me immensely to understand better the issue.

Cheers,
Armin.

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Sun May 01, 2011 2:15 pm

I still love my Forester BUT.

Last Tuesday the check engine and ESC lights came on and stayed on so I sent the car for a sleepover with the dealer while I was interstate and got my son to pick it up form me before COB on Friday.

Guess what, nothing is fixed there are two shot glow plugs and a blown fuse, all have to ordered from Japan and they will call me when the parts come in.

A fuse replacement from Japan, FFS what the hell have Subaru built here.

The car now has just under 20,000 in 9 months and has been back in the shop quite a few times which is simply not good enough for a new car.

The upside of the ESC being out is I have no ABS and the brakes are sensational.

Mess · Post by **Mess** » Sun May 01, 2011 3:47 pm

Interesting. That's exactly the problem I had with the lights and the two stuffed glowplugs and fuse. Fortunately, I only had to wait overnight for the parts. Not good that glowplugs are falling apart after 20,000kms.

pitrack_1 · Post by **pitrack_1** » Mon May 02, 2011 12:52 am

suthol wrote:Guess what, nothing is fixed there are two shot glow plugs and a blown fuse, all have to ordered from Japan and they will call me when the parts come in.

and

Mess wrote:Interesting. That's exactly the problem I had with the lights and the two stuffed glowplugs and fuse. Fortunately, I only had to wait overnight for the parts. Not good that glowplugs are falling apart after 20,000kms.

Ouch!

Some info was posted on these plugs elsewhere- see "EE20 Facts!" on the subaruforester.org website, viz:

(The Rookie's post) "Yes it has glow plugs, but like all modern CR Diesels in anything like normal weather you don't have to wait for the light to go out for you to start, at 25C they are there primarily to reduce engine out emissions."

Certainly I have been able to start the engine during warmish weather without waiting for the light to go out- hangover from driving petrol engines. I have reversed this now, waiting 1-2 secs and the (non-existent) light to go out before starting petrol engines!

(dpm's post- refers to changes from Euro IV to Euro V spec) "The glow plugs have been changed from a metallic type to a ceramic type, raising the maximum operating temperature and providing better start-up at cold temperatures." from http://europeanmotornews.com/2010/10/27 ... u-outback/

Some info on diesel glow plugs can be found at http://www.ngkspark.com.au/glowplug_info.php and therein.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon May 02, 2011 11:22 am

I have in the past helped dealership customers step on some toes and suggest they swap parts - either to push a sale or resolve a diagnostic issue.

I'd suggest in this case that unsold stock could be rendered NOT FOR SALE for a while coz it has supplied the necessary glow plugs and fuse to KEEP an existing customer happy and NOT WAIT for import of some basic components

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Mon May 02, 2011 2:28 pm

steptoe wrote: I'd suggest in this case that unsold stock could be rendered NOT FOR SALE for a while coz it has supplied the necessary glow plugs and fuse to KEEP an existing customer happy and NOT WAIT for import of some basic components

I have robbed from new cars, (I'm sure others have also) when a certain part is unavailable within Australia.

It's all about keeping the customer on the road and happy first time.

MY11OBD · Post by **MY11OBD** » Tue May 03, 2011 7:30 am

Since the 27th when EGR valve changed over, no signs of the shudder... Outback been driving well. Fingers crossed that it continues to be like this.

Been checking out for any tunning tools to help and found this link... have a look guys what do you think, would this help or make it worse?
http://www.chipexpress.com/products/2145/

angrysubowner · Post by **angrysubowner** » Wed May 04, 2011 6:43 pm

Just took my vehicle in to get the DPF flashing light reset. I was told by the service department that Subaru are aware of the problem and are in the process of trying to fix the software problem causing the shudder. Was told it was definately not the EGR valve causing the issue.

They offered to replace my oil and filter if the light came back on again before service intervals.

I also received this response from Subaru National Customer Service:

Dear Mr Henry,

Thank you for your email to feedback at Subaru. We appreciate your concerns in regards to your Forester, the shuddering in your vehicle is a concern that Subaru Australia are currently investigating. We are now speaking to Fuji Heavy Industries, themanufactures of Subaru vehicles, to further understand and investigate this. Once we know what is the cause of this and what can be done, we will be in contact to get this put into place.

Kind Regards, Subaru (Aust) Pty Limited
Robert Choon
Customer Relations Representative

-----Original Message-----From:

Sent: Monday, 2 May 2011 1:22 PMTo: Feedback SubaruSubject: Subaru web site enquiry -
Enquiry type: Product Complaint

Enquiry: I want to know what further progess you have made in trying to identify a fix to the Diesel Particulate Filter "Shuddering" Issue being experienced by owners of the 2010 Diesel Forester. It has been noted on the subaru owners forum that this problem is not unique and is common amongst this model. I do not believe it is good enough to be told how I have to drive thiscar for it to "behave" itself. At no stage was I informed by the dealer that this car would need special driving needs to stop it shuddering and losing power. I eagerly await your reply as to how you plan to address the issues of all these owners.

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:28 am

Well it's been a week since my Forester was diagnosed has having two blown glowplugs and a blown fuse in the stability control and the dealer hasn't rung to have the car booked back in for repair. The parts had to come from Japan.

The shudder in the driveline was much worse this morning and it wasn't at all happy under 80 in 4th, admittedly there were major traffic issues and I spent a lot of the first hour of the drive in 1st & 2nd.

The shudder really only became apparent at around the 10,000 mark and the DPF after the 12,500 service.

Time for that hostile phone call I think.

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:31 am

You will get shudder if 2 cylinders are not combusting properly ( i know that for sure), which could be happening if you have two blown glow plugs? Maybe someone who knows about diesels could say otherwise.

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:26 am

Just got a call from the dealer and they tell me another week, most unamused.

Time to start writing to the motoring mags slagging off at Subaru for their apparent lack of interest and unreliable diesel vehicles.

Edited to add. Just had a major whinge to Wheels magazine

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:53 pm

suthol wrote:Edited to add. Just had a major whinge to Wheels magazine

I hope that hasn't just tanked my resale value. I have to offload this vehicle in 3 years time when my lease finishes.

What did they say BTW?

suthol · Post by **suthol** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:04 pm

skipalami wrote:I hope that hasn't just tanked my resale value. I have to offload this vehicle in 3 years time when my lease finishes.

What did they say BTW?

Don't know yet, I sent to his private email address so won't know until he reads it and gives me a call. ( yes it's someone I know personally )

skipalami · Post by **skipalami** » Thu May 05, 2011 9:34 pm

At my 12500 service, my ECU was reset. Since then no shudder for 5000km. Not a single one or even a hint.

Having an electrical engineering background I understand how all of the ECU algorithms learn, however what I don't understand is why my car seems to be coping alright now and others who have had their ECU's reset are still suffering the shudder.

Even the place where I could reproduce the shudder every time in as low as 4th fails me now. The car pulls up the hill like a champ in 5th @2000rpm, no sweat.

I must admit, it do give the car a boot full these days.

Now I have opened my trap, I bet it shudders tomorrow on the way to work.

teye · Post by **teye** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:12 pm

13000km and no shudder, lights, any thing really. I drive it hard and fuel use stays around 7l 100km. But mostly its driven on school runs. I try and take it out once a week for a thrash.

I notice this seems to be a lower east coast issue. Ive googled and cant see much else elswhere, I imagine if the issue was wide spread it would at least show up once somewhere. From what I can tell a shit load have been sold in europe.

Is it a fuel quality issue ??????

The AUSubaru.com.au Forums

2010 Diesel Drivetrain shudder

Subaru diesel shudder in the Netherlands

Response from Subaru

Im confused

Shudder