Diesel Particulate Filter - DPF

[subdiesel]

The second last visit they actually erased the ECU and started again.

Sounds like a plain normal reflash.
You've probably got new ECU software as Subaru software reads ROMID from ECU first and refuses to flash same or lower version.

SH7058/7058S/7059 microcontroller ROM flash memory (embedded inside chip) is divided into 16 blocks. These have different sizes ranging from 4 to 256 KiB each according to Renesas manual.
AFAIK flash memory needs block erasing before it can be written to, makes all bits '1', resulting in FF-bytes.
Writing data (programming) afterwards adds the required '0'-bits. Here, blocksize can be much smaller (128 bytes).

So standard reflash procedure is to erase all of the required blocks first, then write (new) data.
Not that mechanics would have to know about these details, they have to rely on fixed software anyway...

[teye]

"I've found if you avoid the sub 1800rpm range during normal driving, and make sure to get some open road / flowing driving in during the week, you raise the exhaust temps sufficiently to burn off the soot trapped, you rarely notice any regens happening. If you drive in start stop traffic, do lots of short trips, or labour the engine below the 1800 "boost" range, you generate a lot of soot, and you'll notice frequent regens. At first I was getting a regen about once a fortnight, now it's several weeks between each one I notice, as I've changed how I drive. Keep the revs up above 2000, and if you do find yourself off boost, don't plant the foot, change down, or use gradual accelerator to minimise the soot the engine is producing. I often drive in 3rd at 60kph, especially in traffic, and the net result is hopefully my DPF will last as long as possible. Watch those nasty old diesels, and notice the times they are belching smoke, and when they aren't. Your modern diesel is doing the same, just your DPF is catching it all."

[Diesel OB]

Been doing some more reading to try and get to the bottom of this problem and came across JLM Diesel Particulate Filter Cleaner Fluid.

In Citroen, Peugeot etc – (also some Ford, Volvo) an active on board additive system with its own tank & pump system automatically doses the correct amount of additive to the diesel fuel.

Others it is recommended as a 100ml additive at each service (10000km). Seems like it is a European thing but may be worth trying, its appears to be around $40 per dose which seems reasonable if it works!!!

Anyone seen it here or used it???

Here is a link to a good read about it and DPF in general http://www.jlmlubricants.com/Diesel.html

Phil

[steptoe]

That is what that Pug owner was all pissed off about - cleaner fluid reservoir! Reason he was never gonna buy another Pug. Bet the Pug makers didn't want o fit it either.

So Fuji have avoided that add on at least !

[Outback_Diesel_Nightmare]

Hi Naturalfooter,

Mine is an Outback.....and I have spoken with consumer affairs!!

More or less told me that as there is no "Lemon Law" in Australia that to get anywhere I would need to sue them.

However they did say that there would be a case as the new car warranty states that the vehicle must be "Fit For Purpose" and any car that needs to go to the dealer 6 times in 2-3 months is not that.

Haven't really got the cash to chance loosing though.....maybe we all need to get together and approach a lawyer to see if a class action is something worth looking into???

Phil

Hi Phil

We've had our Outback Diesel since Apr 2010 and it's been back to the workshop more than 6 times already, including twice when the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree! First the DPF starts flashing, then it becomes constant, then all the malfunction lights come on, including the engine malfunction light. When that happens, the car becomes sluggish - I think the turbo doesn't work.

We've been extremely frustrated and thought that we had a lemon. But from reading other experiences here and on other forums, it looks like it's not just a couple of lemons, it's a whole orchard!

I've spoken to the dealer. Apparently it's the way we drive. WTF?!? This is my 4th new car in 15 years, including another diesel. Never had an problems before and I certainly haven't changed the way I drive.

Happy to be in it if there's a class action!

Linus

[Outback Walker]

Purchased my new diesel Outback in March 2011. With 1,100 on the clock commenced an outback driving holiday that covered approx 7,000km over 20 days on tar and dirt roads regularly travelling at speeds in excess of 90kph. On 19 April filled up at the BP Wilcannia and headed to Parkes. About 50km out of Wilcannia the particulate warning light came on. Contacted the service department of the dealer from whom I purchased the car when I got to Cobar where I had mobile coverage. Advised that they had not heard of the problem but suggested that I immediately attend the nearest Subaru dealer (Dubbo) for inspection/service. Explained that this was not practical as I was headed to Parkes. Advised to drive at speed > 80kph in 5th gear. Light remained on for 2 days and then went out. Returned to Sydney and have had no trouble since but remain concerned after reading other posts in this forum. Hope this information helps other owners.

[Diesel OB]

Hi Phil

We've had our Outback Diesel since Apr 2010 and it's been back to the workshop more than 6 times already, including twice when the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree! First the DPF starts flashing, then it becomes constant, then all the malfunction lights come on, including the engine malfunction light. When that happens, the car becomes sluggish - I think the turbo doesn't work.

We've been extremely frustrated and thought that we had a lemon. But from reading other experiences here and on other forums, it looks like it's not just a couple of lemons, it's a whole orchard!

I've spoken to the dealer. Apparently it's the way we drive. WTF?!? This is my 4th new car in 15 years, including another diesel. Never had an problems before and I certainly haven't changed the way I drive.

Happy to be in it if there's a class action!

Linus

Hi Linus,

I am still in discussions with Subaru Australia to see if FHI have a fix yet? Contacted them again Thursday 28/4/11 stating that I was a bit annoyed that I haven't really had any feedback from them...it seems as though we have a problem they put a band-aid on it to get us to go away and we have no follow up until we contact them with further problems!!

I agree that the whole driving style is a joke I do not grandpa a car, and regardless the car is not sold with a big sticker on it saying that it not to be driven gently around town!! My Parents have a Pajero with DPF system and I would be confident in saying it would very rarely see more that 1800 rpm....no issues!! Auto to boot!!

Once I see their reply if I am not satisfied I am going to send them some extracts from this forum. I am not going to give up on this I buy new cars not to have issues and it is no where near good enough.

I have actually given up using 6th gear all together as I think this may be adding to the issue...may be fine at high speed on the motorways of Europe but not at 100km/h here.

Even though the fuel economy has been about 20% less than when the car was new since they began trying to fix it, there doesn't to seem to be any great difference between using 5th and 6th.

If you or anyone else want's to PM me there email address and we can get enough people I am happy to look into class action and also let people know where I have gotten to with Subaru Australia.

Regards Phil

[Subyroo]

66 replies and 4,425 lookers/posters, that's a lot of people taking a great interest in this thread something Subaru should not ignore.

IMO Subaru's mantel is on a slippery slope.

[steptoe]

Yes, could be some work but you could compile an updated listing of all members concerned in one message post, group by location ?

[Falco80]

66 replies and 4,425 lookers/posters, that's a lot of people taking a great interest in this thread something Subaru should not ignore.

IMO Subaru's mantel is on a slippery slope.

It is a lot of people taking interest, but you've also got to think that there are a lot of others out there with issues that haven't googled on the internet or come across this thread yet either.

I wish Subaru/FHI would just be honest with us instead of trying to blame the issues on peoples driving style. Thats the first thing they seem to ask when you rock up to a service centre with problems is..."Well how do you drive it?" I bet they all had a meeting with instructions telling them to ask this question to the customer first and foremost as soon as they walk through the door with a problem.

FFS, if this engine was not meant to be babied the salesman should tell people this before they hand over there cash. There are probably people out there that drive these diesels like a nana, going for maximum economy, and they don't have any issue....yet. In my 16000k's so far I can say that you can still get great economy even if you do drive it hard a fair bit, which is what a diesel needs anyway - to be worked hard!

[Outback Walker]

Purchased my new diesel Outback in March 2011. With 1,100 on the clock commenced an outback driving holiday that covered approx 7,000km over 20 days on tar and dirt roads regularly travelling at speeds in excess of 90kph. On 19 April filled up at the BP Wilcannia and headed to Parkes. About 50km out of Wilcannia the particulate warning light came on. Contacted the service department of the dealer from whom I purchased the car when I got to Cobar where I had mobile coverage. Advised that they had not heard of the problem but suggested that I immediately attend the nearest Subaru dealer (Dubbo) for inspection/service. Explained that this was not practical as I was headed to Parkes. Advised to drive at speed > 80kph in 5th gear. Light remained on for 2 days and then went out. Returned to Sydney and have had no trouble since but remain concerned after reading other posts in this forum. Hope this information helps other owners.

This morning (Wednesday 4 May 2011) my wife drove the car to work. As she was entering a carpark at North Strathfield the car stalled, every light on the dashboard illuminated and the handbrake activated. Initially the car would not restart and could not be moved as the handbrake was locked on (apologies to the motorists trying to get into the carpark). After repeated attempts to restart the vehicle the engine kicked over normally and the dashboard lights deactivated. After parking the car and turning the engine off the car was restarted 5 minutes later and the same problem occurred. NRMA attended and applied a diagnostic tool which reported the following fault message " Code 1468, Unknown manufacturer DTC". Not wishing to tempt fate again the vehicle was towed to the dealer. Has anyone else encountered this problem?

[angrysubowner]

Reading all these posts makes me so angry. Im getting all the DPF BS as well and got the "driving style" spiel. Im a driving instructor with the military so I know how full of it they are!

Goodbye resale and hello costly repairs in the later years. Subaru is a brand i no longer trust.

Lets just hope someone of means can lawyer up and get some legal action happening.

[suthol]

Well it's now Wednesday night and I still haven't heard from the dealer about my new glowplugs and fuse.

I could have swum to Japan and back by now.

Could be an animated phone call in the morning.

[Falco80]

I think the engine is very unpredictable. Sometimes the car accelerates smoothly and quickly the other days there is about 2 seconds of turbo lag between every gear change
Anyone had any problems like this

When the car has this much lag, and when you notice that the car just doesnt have the same spirit and torque.
The car is doing a regen at these points.

Also your fuel economy rises slightly. The main notice though is the driveability of the car. The car becomes a slug

I have noticed that sometimes on a dead flat road it would be cruising at about
6L/100km then then other days would be 8L/100 on the same bit of road.

I have had the shudder once or twice so far in 4th gear, but lately i've been noticing that as i'm heading out of my street in the morning going to work, the engine stutters a fair bit as i'm accelerating easily in 2nd gear. It feels like an old carbied petrol motor when they are really cold in the morning or like their is air in the fuel system or a fuel starvation issue. It only does it a few minutes after the first startup of the day.

BUT, the thing that is starting to annoy me is this "lag" when it must be doing a DPF regen. It's almost dangerous when you need power straight away and you have to wait a few seconds for the engine to wake up. It's much worse than being caught off boost and frustrates the hell out of me. Today we had to stop on the highway while the firies put out a small grass fire, and then once we got past it and went to accelerate, back to highway speed, I got the lag. Previously i had been sitting in 5th gear with the engine spinning between 2100 and 2300 rpm for a good half hour, so why the hell was the engine doing a regen at that point?

This engine does seem to be unpredictable, and i feel there is way too much going on in the background with the engine management system/ECU always doing stuff.
CRD technology gives us easy power and fuel economy, but all the electrikery is really bugging me at the moment.

[suthol]

I have had the shudder once or twice so far in 4th gear, but lately i've been noticing that as i'm heading out of my street in the morning going to work, the engine stutters a fair bit as i'm accelerating easily in 2nd gear. It feels like an old carbied petrol motor when they are really cold in the morning or like their is air in the fuel system or a fuel starvation issue. It only does it a few minutes after the first startup of the day.

BUT, the thing that is starting to annoy me is this "lag" when it must be doing a DPF regen. It's almost dangerous when you need power straight away and you have to wait a few seconds for the engine to wake up. It's much worse than being caught off boost and frustrates the hell out of me. Today we had to stop on the highway while the firies put out a small grass fire, and then once we got past it and went to accelerate, back to highway speed, I got the lag. Previously i had been sitting in 5th gear with the engine spinning between 2100 and 2300 rpm for a good half hour, so why the hell was the engine doing a regen at that point?

This engine does seem to be unpredictable, and i feel there is way too much going on in the background with the engine management system/ECU always doing stuff.
CRD technology gives us easy power and fuel economy, but all the electrikery is really bugging me at the moment.

A minor word of warning here, a friend of mine is one of the senior journos at Wheels and he told me that this and the previous generations of Subie have fly by wire throttle and basically the ECU won't believe you when you flatten the pedal, sounds stupid but that has been the case with each one they have tested.

Fly by wire won't allow the throttle to snap shut either which helps the current ADR noise test, I've just put my Lotus 7 replica through this and it is very difficult to pass <75Dba with WOT snap on / snap off in 2nd and 3rd from 60 Kph over 50 meters averaged over a total of 12 passes.

[Woody]

I have done 50,000kms in my Outback desiel and I had the DPF light come on. I took this in to a Subaru Agent and they cleaned it out for a charge. But they proceded to tell me that there was a way to stop this from happening. What you do is drive the car for 15-20min in forth gear along the highway. This is meant to clean out the DPF. I do this once every couple of months now and have not had the issue since. This information was not meant to be given to the general public as it was for internal use only. What is Subaru doing to its customers not telling them about this problem.

[Diesel OB]

If you have a look, this information is in the book!! For those of us who do mainly highway miles and still have the issues this is not a fix.....seems you may have one of the few that is behaving as it should.....LUCKY YOU!!!

Phil

[MY11OBD]

4th gear on 100km for 15/20 mins may as well drive like that all the time... thats bull... There is an issue with the programming the dpf is not related to the
shudder as my car after 1 week of EGR valve change over shuddered last night on the way home... even after a long coutry run during easter break....

[Woody]

If you have a look, this information is in the book!! For those of us who do mainly highway miles and still have the issues this is not a fix.....seems you may have one of the few that is behaving as it should.....LUCKY YOU!!!

Phil

Yeah I have one on the good ones but my was one of the first shipment into Aust. These ones didn't have the information in the book that the later ones had. The information book came out in July last year. After reading this thread it seems I have one of the good ones. I only have the little problem of not having instant power but i think that is because it is diesel.

[suthol]

Yeah I have one on the good ones but my was one of the first shipment into Aust. These ones didn't have the information in the book that the later ones had. The information book came out in July last year. After reading this thread it seems I have one of the good ones. I only have the little problem of not having instant power but i think that is because it is diesel.

Mine came off the first boat load and was delivered around mid July so I think you just got lucky.

As for the lack of instant power according to my mate at Wheels all fly by wire Subies have this problem because the ECU thinks you are an idiot and don't know what you are doing.

My Gen2 Forester and last Gen Liberty were exactly the same, you had to judge the place to merge or overtake carefully.

PS. The WRX and other petrol turbos are probably set up differently but I haven't driven one so don't know.