EA81 valve stem seal replacement, heads on?

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:06 pm

I'll redo it another day with the engine cold again. usual practice is to give it about that number of cranks. Wouldn't surprise me if it was about the same with less cranks.

There is a pattern yes, but as nothing conclusive can be gained from it, its pointless. it could be any of the following:

*Oil seepage in 1/3 causing a better seal and higher compression.
*Extra coking from burnt oil in 1/3 causing higher compression.
*Mismatched heads.

There is otherwise no indication of a dead cylinder. No deflection on the vacuum gauge, no unevenness when it's running and no obvious lack of power.

All this is very well trodden ground for me, albeit with different motors. Everything considered I might do a wet compression test. I don't have access to a leakdown tester or all the necessary parts to make one currently.

Have you done a head check for CO content in the cooling system?

Could you please explain this?

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:53 pm

back from the second and 3rd rounds of testing. 2nd was an oops because I forgot to open the throttle.

Third round results, ~3 cranks each, a couple of attempts per cylinder for consistency. Dry because I couldn't find anything to get oil in with.

1:182
2:165
3:180
4:170

1 is the oiliest plug so being the highest compression isn't surprising.

The even bank being a bit different to the odd bank made itself obviously to me. I never noticed the even bank head is "shiny". Ie not the un-cleanable dank grey of the rest of the motor. So the even bank, Ie the not super oily one, has been replaced. I guess taht explains a lot. The odd bank looks original, so the seals are probably worn to hell. Shame they didn't balance the compression properly. Oh well. Not really worth stripping and cc-ing a motor this old.

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:14 pm

Here's the tool that shows CO :

Of course it is more expensive over here from a tool shop, a mate paid about $200.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TeeKay-H ... 500wt_1182

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:22 pm

Oh I see. No I haven't. Bit of a price difference there. That kit might be useful for me for the Ford. Windsors

I see what you mean. If coolant is getting into the chambers via the head gasket, it's likely some level of gases may be getting back. makes sense.

One thing I can say is that I haven't seen any new contamination since I put everything together after I got it, but that means squat with the stop leak residue.

I've been doing some reading on where people have done stem seals on the motor. Unless the subie is a special flower it doesn't look too bad. The only thing that spooks me a little is those double springs.

Replacing the stem seals on the bad side seems like it could be a good start in figuring things out too. Given that there is an oily side and a ...relatively okay side, and the oily side happens to look original, and oil ring failure on two cylinders on one side while the compression rings stay intact seems a little unlikely it seems like a fair gamble. Assuming I can do it.
the only real expense seems to be the tool. I swear I'm on the way to having more tools than the mechanic.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:34 pm

Double springs are no issue, just make sure when you put them back the end that looks more compressed goes towards the head for both springs.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:31 pm

Good to know. no idea how I'll remove the old ones assuming they haven't disintegrated, bt it shouldn't be too hard, right?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:01 pm

side cutter pliers, big flat blade screw drivers, some good leverage ponts, slip jointed pliers, gloves - or bandaids - your choice. And remember that only one of each pot gets the seal think it is inlet, maybe exhaust

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:35 pm

Def. inlets only on these motors. So whatever works really. That's my philosophy

As an aside, One day after I got my bench valve spring tool I went and pulled apart all the VW heads I had in the shed. Besides pretty much all of them having at least one loose valve seat and various other maladies, what I noticed was nearly all of them were missing the stem seals. I've heard their most common location is in pieces in the sump.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:39 pm

This one is a real derail, but it just occurred to me. What earths the intake manifold? The carby and the temp sender need it (and what I just learned is a thermo fan switch). I can't think of a single metal - metal contact besides the accelerator setup.

littlewhiteute · Post by **littlewhiteute** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:18 am

RatCamper wrote:This one is a real derail, but it just occurred to me. What earths the intake manifold? The carby and the temp sender need it (and what I just learned is a thermo fan switch). I can't think of a single metal - metal contact besides the accelerator setup.

The intake manifold is bolted to the heads.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:46 am

littlewhiteute wrote:The intake manifold is bolted to the heads.

I feel like a real idiot. Absolutely. I shouldn't post any time after I've been using carburettor cleaner. I swear that stuff dissolves brain cells.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:35 am

I ordered the seals today. They couldn't give me a price but said they could send them back if they are too expensive, which is a relief because I don't like committing to buy something when the cost is an unknown.

It'll be next week before I can get the valve tool unfortunately, but in a way I guess that's good. it gives me time to pull the carburettor and do some checking / tweaking.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:20 pm

RatCamper wrote:I ordered the seals today. They couldn't give me a price but said they could send them back if they are too expensive, which is a relief because I don't like committing to buy something when the cost is an unknown.

If you've got a part number or know exactly what you're after try out fleabay US style or rockauto.com - great for quality cheap parts

I've purchased a cam belt kit from fleabay US, including postage it was about 40% cheaper than the cheapest aussie kit I could find.

Cheers

Bennie

edit: love that fact about the VW's stem seals! Classic!

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:33 pm

Still waiting on a price. I'll find out when the ignition coil for the Ford arrives. That gave up on me earlier in the week, so it has a Magna one patched in for now. Cars. Argh!

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:33 am

Here I go spamming again.
Today it is pretty cold.
I was mean to the Ford and have only been driving it very short distances on a partially discharged (and quite probably buggered) battery, so today I had to jump start it because it just didn't quite have the necessary oomph.

So I used my VW to jump start, as I do. Pretty much no visible smoke on start up and very little with just a little pressure applied to the accelerator. When the motor was warmed up to about 80*C I was seeing a little visible smoke but not much. It's weird that it does this some days but not all. Some other days it's like the batmobile.

To satisfy another idea I stuck a bit of tape on the header tank at coolant level. Once it's dead cold again I'll see if the level changed. Trouble is it wasn't having a smokey day.

Also worth noting is the "coolant" I'm using is just the cheap corrosion inhibitor concentrate from Repco. because I have been dumping the coolant so often to work on things and losing a bit each time, it didn't seem worthwhile to get the good stuff yet. This stuff burns white and smells like some kind of burning herb (no not that!). I know this from my exhaust. Any spilled fluids drip straight down on it. So I can't tell from the smell. I still wonder if the manifold is leaking or something.

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:50 am

One more thing. The PCV is allowing a decent amount of suck at idle. Is that right? If I pull the plastic thing off the top of the PCV hose and put my thumb over it, besides it trying pretty hard to suck my thumb in, it drops idle by maybe 400RPM at a guess.

Post by **TOONGA** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:03 pm

the PCV should be sucking, as for how much vacuum it should be creating I'm not sure.

If you don't have a spare PCV to test it against, remove it clean it with carby cleaner or petrol shake it when it is clean and it will rattle (it has a bearing inside) then put it back on the engine.

Next; do you have the PCV plumbed as per the drawing/ diagram on the retrofitting the weber page? if not it would be a good idea to try and replicate the basics in the diagram. not only will it help the idle it will help the oil flow in the engine.

TOONGA

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:35 pm

Thanks for that TOONGA. The PCV plumbing is as original. The different air cleaner I used had compatible tubes, and a few extras that I plugged.

The good news is I stopped most of the smoke today!

I found a few minor vacuum leaks around some hoses, which I fixed. Some of this was when I shifted what manifold fitting the charcoal canister connected to. I moved it from the biggish one behind the carby to the little one on top of the manifold about 2/3 along on the right. A much better fit. It also caused the motor to run like utter rubbish. Cue a bit more stuffing around and having the vac gauge connected via the fitting the canister used to be connected to.
I found when I pinched the canister vac line the engine struggled and the revs dropped. Looks like the canister diaphragm has failed. Bugger. So I've plugged that for the moment until I can pull anther one from the wrecker when I'm in the area.

I dumped a little carby cleaner down the PCV hose. After a few seconds the engine would chug then speed up. That's okay. So I put a little DIY cleaner in (diesel and petrol), it did the same. I did that a few more times just to be sure. I know the valve operates when I wind it up and release the throttle because I hear it clack a few times. but it could well have been a little sticky in there.

The final surprise was when I went to swap the idle jets back because of the lean running. The one on the secondary circuit had all this weird sand like stuff on it. That wasn't there a few days ago. I sure didn't roll the carby around in the sand when I cleaned it, or beforehand or when it was stored. The primary side was fine.

Anyway I'm back to square 1, which is okay. Smoke when I give it a rev, and some when I release it. So I'm back to old stem seals, which is fine by me, instead of OMG SMOKE!

edit: The canister valve may be good. Somehow it got crammed full of charcoal granules.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:14 pm

Those PCV valves must be one of the most neglected service items on our old Subes. If you do air filter every 40,000km may be god practice to whip it and it tubes out and give a proper clean out - I guess that is what the Subaru inlet tract cleaner foam can do.
Every dirty old Sube engine I have had has been caked up carbon fuzz and hard crud and about to pull same from my latest and expecting same stuff in valve an tubes and their junctions. May be better having been serviced by same Subie dealer for twenty years and 128,000km !! Soon see !
A bit of circle work or hard corners in the EA81 Brumby always saw oil burn from PCV hoses allowing the PCV to slurp a bit

RatCamper · Post by **RatCamper** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:03 pm

I replaced a couple of the spark plugs today. The ones on the left, sorry right for the rest of you were fouled too badly. It makes sense. Looks like the other side weren't far behind. I'll do them later in the week.
I fixed the charcoal canister valve too.

Anyhow I let it run with the accelerator weighted down at about 2500rpm to blast the crap out from the replaced misfiring plugs. I ducked inside for a couple of minutes. I saw thick smoke floating by out the window. It had started smoking. When I can I'm going to repeat that test with the charcoal canister plugged. Call me suspicious.
I'll be glad t get those seals swapped. Most of the smoke is probably them. Hours later the yard still stinks.