EA81 valve stem seal replacement, heads on?
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Silverbullet
- Senior Member
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I can't! That's the big nuisance. It's madness to try driving an unreg'd car here, and I can't even think of a blue slip with a smokey motor. There's only so many times I can go back and forth in the yard tooTOONGA wrote:Im thinking take it for a good drive before you commit to engine work, you may find it is a build up of sludge in the bores or even in the heads. try getting the cobwebs out under load then see how it runs at idle.
TOONGA
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littlewhiteute
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:22 am
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Which side of the engine are we talking about?RatCamper wrote:I replaced a couple of the spark plugs today. The ones on the left, sorry right for the rest of you were fouled too badly.
I fixed the charcoal canister valve too.
When I can I'm going to repeat that test with the charcoal canister plugged. Call me suspicious.
The right side of the engine is the drivers side, which ever way you look at it.
Charcoal canister? I thought you're chasing blue smoke.
Regards
Gary
Gary
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littlewhiteute
- Junior Member
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- Location: Brisbane
Alright. In no uncertain terms. The worst fouled side was the distributor side. However I am starting to wonder if this was due to the leaning effect of the PCV + charcoal canister leak on the other side.
In other news I remembered to look at the header tank this morning. It was down the best part of an inch. The only leak in the system I know of is a really slow drip from the heater hose. That is a real pain which will be addressed another day. It's unlikely, but possible all that coolant escaped from a slow drip.
Two more things. The vacuum is a couple of "Hg lower for the first couple of minutes from cold now. Since I pulled the carb the last time to clean it. Should it be this way? I don't know because I fixed a few hidden problems that day.
I also noticed green on the non-distributor side intake gasket. It was moist. Before I go ripping into that I'll have to check that it's not from the base of the manifold heater pipe or something. Those gaskets are new
In other news I remembered to look at the header tank this morning. It was down the best part of an inch. The only leak in the system I know of is a really slow drip from the heater hose. That is a real pain which will be addressed another day. It's unlikely, but possible all that coolant escaped from a slow drip.
Two more things. The vacuum is a couple of "Hg lower for the first couple of minutes from cold now. Since I pulled the carb the last time to clean it. Should it be this way? I don't know because I fixed a few hidden problems that day.
I also noticed green on the non-distributor side intake gasket. It was moist. Before I go ripping into that I'll have to check that it's not from the base of the manifold heater pipe or something. Those gaskets are new
valve stem seals, heads on
Yeah, have done the valve stem seals with the heads on on my EA81T a few years ago, made up a tool that pivots on the rocker arm, bolt on the other end screws down to apply pressure on the spring retainer to get the collets out. Will try finding it and send a photo.
Might have to import. I'll be too old to drive by the time they get the seals in here. Did some more experimenting yesterday. First the coolant drop was about 1cm, if that instead of the inch I said. oops. To settle my curiosity I did something naughty with this hateful motor. I put a bottle of the cooling system stop leak through it. I figure it's already had a bottle through it, and various other things led me to believe the motor has been overheated in the past so I've really got nothing to lose.
The result: Unclear.
I swapped the other two spark plugs before I started and tweaked the idle a little once it had warmed up enough to a "best lean" setup rather than the 1/2 turn richer method. I think I did that after I added the stuff. it ticked away nicely the whole time (combined maybe 45 min) without a puff of smoke. Before I went to shut it off I pushed the accelerator. Smoke cloud! So there really is no doubt the stem seals are shot.
Why don't I just get on and do it? Because I'm waiting on the stuff I need, so I thought I'd eliminate everything else.
I'm still impressed at how the engine was idling. Barely any popping from the exhaust which is good considering there are a couple of pinholes on a weld on the exhaust right near the head. The only time it complained was when the thermo fan kicked in. Some of the times it did the exhaust would pop. Probably the startup current of the motor bogging the motor. The fan is drawing power straight from the alternator via a relay whereas my ignition feed is from the starter. All other engine bay accessories are via the battery terminal and a relay.
The result: Unclear.
I swapped the other two spark plugs before I started and tweaked the idle a little once it had warmed up enough to a "best lean" setup rather than the 1/2 turn richer method. I think I did that after I added the stuff. it ticked away nicely the whole time (combined maybe 45 min) without a puff of smoke. Before I went to shut it off I pushed the accelerator. Smoke cloud! So there really is no doubt the stem seals are shot.
Why don't I just get on and do it? Because I'm waiting on the stuff I need, so I thought I'd eliminate everything else.
I'm still impressed at how the engine was idling. Barely any popping from the exhaust which is good considering there are a couple of pinholes on a weld on the exhaust right near the head. The only time it complained was when the thermo fan kicked in. Some of the times it did the exhaust would pop. Probably the startup current of the motor bogging the motor. The fan is drawing power straight from the alternator via a relay whereas my ignition feed is from the starter. All other engine bay accessories are via the battery terminal and a relay.
I started it up today because the Ford's Stupid battery was flat enough it couldn't crank properly again. Stupid expensive Willow with magic silver something not even a year old and I can't find the receipt!
What happened was weird.
Firstly loud as for a while, because the manifold vacuum is about 2"Hg below normal for a few minutes. Maybe to do with fast idle cam holding the butterfly open and rich choke mix? no idea.
I was inside the house for a bit but the idle was high, then it dropped down as I headed out, and then picked up again a lot but much quieter so I guess manifold vac was normal. Maybe choke opening, fast idle disengaging then ??? because the bloody idle went up to maybe 1500 RPM! Smoking away with its weird smoke again too. I can say it makes the Ford smell like sulphur inside afterwards.
The first few minutes I could smell the spicy smell of the non-glycol corrosion inhibitor stuff. Whether it was coming out the exhaust or from dripping on it I couldn't say. The latter it shouldn't be.
I just don't know now. If my sniffer wasn't so useless I'd know the bigger picture.
On the bright side I just paid for the valve spring tool. I have no doubt it's part of the problem.
On the dark side... On cold days the motor makes a horrible howling noise. I bet it's every bloody bearing getting ready to fail on me. It'd be my luck.
edit: The power butterfly is sticking! No idea why but that's a great cause of high idle and dieseling. Smoking? Can't comment yet.
What happened was weird.
Firstly loud as for a while, because the manifold vacuum is about 2"Hg below normal for a few minutes. Maybe to do with fast idle cam holding the butterfly open and rich choke mix? no idea.
I was inside the house for a bit but the idle was high, then it dropped down as I headed out, and then picked up again a lot but much quieter so I guess manifold vac was normal. Maybe choke opening, fast idle disengaging then ??? because the bloody idle went up to maybe 1500 RPM! Smoking away with its weird smoke again too. I can say it makes the Ford smell like sulphur inside afterwards.
The first few minutes I could smell the spicy smell of the non-glycol corrosion inhibitor stuff. Whether it was coming out the exhaust or from dripping on it I couldn't say. The latter it shouldn't be.
I just don't know now. If my sniffer wasn't so useless I'd know the bigger picture.
On the bright side I just paid for the valve spring tool. I have no doubt it's part of the problem.
On the dark side... On cold days the motor makes a horrible howling noise. I bet it's every bloody bearing getting ready to fail on me. It'd be my luck.
edit: The power butterfly is sticking! No idea why but that's a great cause of high idle and dieseling. Smoking? Can't comment yet.
Ah the session timed out.
Abridged version:
Freed up the butterfly. Because of the design I can manually open the secondary butterfly a tiny bit without the primary opening. If I can do that without the engine stalling it sits on maybe 2000rpm, rather grumpily, and at lower vacuum, but it blows no smoke while sitting on that rpm, nor does it blow smoke when I release it.
At this point it looks like the best diagnosis, which is expensive, time consuming, still kind of crap and a massive PITA is to swap manifolds again and try it with the old carburettor. Expensive because I'd need two more gasket sets and probably lose more coolant in the draining, crap because the Hitachi is crap and unpredictable which is why I pulled it off in the first place. Kind of makes me wish I had the carb adapter. I could flip the lot and bolt the hitachi on to the weber manifold.
Why am I putting this here? No smoke, that's why. The valve compressor and hold up fitting arrived today too. Typical. Still no stem seals.
Abridged version:
Freed up the butterfly. Because of the design I can manually open the secondary butterfly a tiny bit without the primary opening. If I can do that without the engine stalling it sits on maybe 2000rpm, rather grumpily, and at lower vacuum, but it blows no smoke while sitting on that rpm, nor does it blow smoke when I release it.
At this point it looks like the best diagnosis, which is expensive, time consuming, still kind of crap and a massive PITA is to swap manifolds again and try it with the old carburettor. Expensive because I'd need two more gasket sets and probably lose more coolant in the draining, crap because the Hitachi is crap and unpredictable which is why I pulled it off in the first place. Kind of makes me wish I had the carb adapter. I could flip the lot and bolt the hitachi on to the weber manifold.
Why am I putting this here? No smoke, that's why. The valve compressor and hold up fitting arrived today too. Typical. Still no stem seals.
tony wrote:don't worry about the battery receipt they have a code stamped on them that shows when the guarantee expires. just don't tell the service guy you don't have a receipt, you might confuse him. just take it in to any willow dealer.(never heard of willow batteries)
Good to know. It cost about $150 so not even getting a year out of it is a disappointment. Believe it or not I went to the NRMA office to get a battery because of the member discount. Sorry no NRMA battries, but we still have these. No discount. That was a nuisance. Willow are generally good batteries. I got the highest CCA one I could too because the Ford is a V8.
I think I have an RACV battery on the Subie motor currently. Good battery. Sure I'm using a different starter but that's beside the point. It has enough oomph to turn the direct drive (ie not reduction gear) starter with the extra compression easily.
So...anyway. Does anyone think I could get a reuse out of the manifold gaskets? They are only a couple of months old and haven't had sealant used on them. Starting to think I need to try the Hitachi again as a sanity check. Assuming it doesn't do something stupid again like fill its secondary throat with fuel, jam the secondary open again, have the idle circuit fail again or one of the many other horrors it performed in its brief stay.
I just realised something while using the "simulator" (VW head with a buggered valve lying on its side) to get some practice. The two spring design of the valves is a problem. The inner spring will still be applying pressure. How strong is that spring, because I may need to shove the tool with one hand while trying to pop the collets in with the other. That'll be fun because even with my bench tool I'm rubbish at it.
Don't suppose anyone has a buggered EA81 head with a valve and spring lying around that I could use as a practice rig?
Don't suppose anyone has a buggered EA81 head with a valve and spring lying around that I could use as a practice rig?
Engine running.
When it stalls is my first attempt to crack just the secondary butterfly. The revving after that point is secondary only. Notice how the smoke dissipates after a bit and stays that way even with deceleration? That's what's got me wondering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD7UFG2bE0M
edit: the clunking is the towbar hitting the muffler. Not some catastrophic engine failure so ignore that. I'll be pulling it off when I put the bumper back on.
edit the second: Why is this a link? The bbcode is right!
When it stalls is my first attempt to crack just the secondary butterfly. The revving after that point is secondary only. Notice how the smoke dissipates after a bit and stays that way even with deceleration? That's what's got me wondering.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD7UFG2bE0M
edit: the clunking is the towbar hitting the muffler. Not some catastrophic engine failure so ignore that. I'll be pulling it off when I put the bumper back on.
edit the second: Why is this a link? The bbcode is right!
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littlewhiteute
- Junior Member
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- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:22 am
- Location: Brisbane
Rev it sort of, yeah. It's a bit of a battle because there's no accelerator pump to help out and I'm only cracking it by a little bit because that's all I can do without the slot and pin arrangement opening the primary. But yes I agree it does seem odd. it has the Holley on there still. Not a clue what the barrel sizes are to be honest.
Er sorry. I was in a hurry before. For once I honestly can't tell if it is fuel or oil smoke by smell. Usually it's obvious.
Two thoughts occurred to me.
When I crack the secondary that little bit the vacuum drops a bit and stays like that, whereas part throttle on the primary the vac goes back up to about 20"Hg.
This could mean either of two things, or perhaps something completely different.
*Doing what I was to the secondary maybe making a really lean burn, burning the oil and not allowing further rev increase.
*The primary could be more restrictive than I thought causing effectively to do less. Ie the engine sucking harder on it at a given throttle position, throwing the current primary jetting out the window. Not as likely but possible.
edit: no wait, wouldn't there still be smoke on deceleration if it were bad stem seals no matter what?
Two thoughts occurred to me.
When I crack the secondary that little bit the vacuum drops a bit and stays like that, whereas part throttle on the primary the vac goes back up to about 20"Hg.
This could mean either of two things, or perhaps something completely different.
*Doing what I was to the secondary maybe making a really lean burn, burning the oil and not allowing further rev increase.
*The primary could be more restrictive than I thought causing effectively to do less. Ie the engine sucking harder on it at a given throttle position, throwing the current primary jetting out the window. Not as likely but possible.
edit: no wait, wouldn't there still be smoke on deceleration if it were bad stem seals no matter what?
Don't get mad. I fed the engine some honey yesterday. STP stop smoke. yes I know it's pretty much just a viscosity modifier. That was the point. From experience with my old series 3 Bluebird I can say that stuff "works". In theory it should have made the motor smoke less. In practice it didn't.
The engine sat for about a week, or may be two before I started it. No problems as always except for an empty float bowl. I forgot to prime the system. No big deal.
Ran it for a bit, watching intently. Still as soon as I take it much above idle it smoked like always. Not sure but it may have been a slightly different colour. The smoke still has a smell that I can't pinpoint too. it's so strange!
I have a suspicion I'm looking at a three headed problem here. Hm. Kind of like Cerberus. perhaps the smoke is a combination of too rich, oil smoke and perhaps coolant.
If a glycol based coolant burns in a very small amount will it smell sweet? I know I said earlier but I'm using a non-glycol corrosion inhibitor for now because it's cheap and I keep rearranging the cooling system. I'm almost considering switching to glycol based just for the smell change. If the exhaust smoke smell changes or the colour changes I know there's glycol coolant in there.
The corrosion inhibitor I'm using right now burns white. not just steam, smoke. It had a leak on the exhaust so I know this for certain. It also leaves a white residue on the ground that won't go away It smells kind of spicy when it burns. I think I may smell it in the exhaust but also I may be wrong because the smell is hard to differentiate from the exhaust. man I hope it's not getting in there.
The engine sat for about a week, or may be two before I started it. No problems as always except for an empty float bowl. I forgot to prime the system. No big deal.
Ran it for a bit, watching intently. Still as soon as I take it much above idle it smoked like always. Not sure but it may have been a slightly different colour. The smoke still has a smell that I can't pinpoint too. it's so strange!
I have a suspicion I'm looking at a three headed problem here. Hm. Kind of like Cerberus. perhaps the smoke is a combination of too rich, oil smoke and perhaps coolant.
If a glycol based coolant burns in a very small amount will it smell sweet? I know I said earlier but I'm using a non-glycol corrosion inhibitor for now because it's cheap and I keep rearranging the cooling system. I'm almost considering switching to glycol based just for the smell change. If the exhaust smoke smell changes or the colour changes I know there's glycol coolant in there.
The corrosion inhibitor I'm using right now burns white. not just steam, smoke. It had a leak on the exhaust so I know this for certain. It also leaves a white residue on the ground that won't go away
It smells kind of spicy when it burns. I think I may smell it in the exhaust but also I may be wrong because the smell is hard to differentiate from the exhaust. man I hope it's not getting in there.