Bee's

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:53 pm

Does anyone know about Bee's and how to "move" a hive somewhere else.
We have a hive set up in the area below us in a tree and it is a concern due to being close to residential (us) and kids (us again)
It is industrial land and a neighbour has tried to make contact with someone in council but eveyone is washing their hand of the issue. The neighbour is as concerned as us and has identified the bee's as being your common "garden" variety and not something protected etc.
I dont make a habit of going around taking things into my own hands but some insight in understanding these creatures would be of benefit.

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:19 pm

So it's a nest, not a box? (artifiacial?)
Smoke them up, cut it down, move it away.
Im not shore, i would try to contact someone who knows what they are doing.
Coz i don't. Hahaha

Cheers Cam

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:28 pm

Lucky you! I might be able to help info-wise; I keep bees as a hobby.

First of all, is it an established hive or just a swarm? Swarms will appear out of nowhere as a ball of bees hanging on a branch but will also leave of their own accord in a few days to a week unless you call a beekeeper to remove them. A swarm is also pretty much harmless since they have nothing to protect.
If it is an established hive it's a bit trickier; they will have honey stores and brood to protect and can attack if you get too close. Judging by what you said (set up in a tree) I'm assuming they've found a hollow in the tree trunk somewhere? If this is the case then it is very difficult move them into a conventional hive without cutting down the tree. A removal of this type would have to be done by a beekeeper and would cost alot, not to mention you would also most likely lose the tree.

Second; how low to the ground are they? are they an immediate nuisance to your daily life? If they are high enough up that you don't get them buzzing around at head height it should be safe to leave them. If however they are low to the ground and pose an immediate risk to you and your family and are an established hive in a hollow my advice would be to call an exterminator. Yes it's sad to lose a hive but like I said saving them could cost alot and lose the tree.

It sounds odd that the council would try and wash their hands of your problem, they should give you phone numbers of local beekeepers who could help you out more than I can over the internet.

I say all of this based on my experiences with bees which is more than most. But I also live in a different part of the country to you, the bees where I live could be alot more docile than the ones in your tree. If it was me and they were high up in a hollow I would leave them but that's because I know them. Most people aren't comfortable with that which is fine if you have kids and/or someone is allergic to them. So depending on your situation you could call a local beekeeper who will either remove them at a (potentially high) cost or tell you to call an exterminator, which would also cost.

In the mean-time don't mow the lawn under them or use 2 stroke powered anything near them (the noise aggravates their defenses) and of course don't go spraying them with a can of Mortein; there's alot more of them than you think and it only takes one sting to whip the rest of them into attack mode and you could end up in hospital. Also just smoking the hive will do nothing to move them on unless you burn down the tree. When you smoke a beehive they start to think their hive is near fire, so they gorge themselves on honey in preparation for abandoning the hive. In this state they are slightly bloated and it is more difficult for them to sting. Some say smoke also masks the pheremone signals they emit to each other but the jury is still out on that one.

Good luck!

d_generate · Post by **d_generate** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:04 pm

I had exactly the same problem when my kids were little, no help from the council and the bee keeper wanted a fortune to remove them so I stood at the entrance to the hive and sprayed them with malathion, little buggers dropped dead instantly unlike taking their time to die with something like Morten.

Used to be sold at hardware stores, not too sure if it's still available though.

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:48 am

Thanks everyone especially Silverbullet for your info.
It appears to be a hive as the Bee's have been around for at least 3 to 4 months but I did not notice them immediately as the tree is on our fence line with one of our neighbours and is behind a garden shed so is not in immediate sight. It does appear like they have set up in the hollow of the tree and they are at head height. The are not an immediate problem but I think they are getting bigger which I imagine would be the case as time goes on anyway.
The issue of who who is responsible is a difficult one as our neighbour has carried out some research and below us is industrial land (probably why the Council are washing their hand of this) but some are saying it is a reserve ?
Anyway, with Christmas and the New Year behind us I will have to go to Council and get them to give me their take on who is responsible for what.
As far as mowing goes someone is hiring a contract mowing company to come and mower the area about once a month. I knnow it is definately not a council employee though. In November all was OK even though the Bee's were active. In December the mowing job is unfinished with a strip either side of the tree left as was. I am wondering if the mower contractor "found" the Bee's and all went a bit "orginary" on him. He has not been back to find out. Maybe he got stung ?
This land below our place needs to be kept mown otherwise snakes become an issue. We have seen a baby Brown snake in our yard some time ago but nothing bigger. Our neighbour on the other side has seen several in the their yard and even run over one on the road in front of their house. It is probably only a matter of time before we see something. I have weed/grass sprayed behind our fence line for about a metre into the area below and this has created a "dead zone" which helps. If someone does not like me doing this all well and good. At least they will come and see me and we can discuss the Bee's issue.
What really brought this to mind was last week I was standing out the front of the local wreckers talking to the owner when all of a sudden 100's of Bee's came towards us. We bolted inside and watched them going in all directions. They then hovered out the front of the wreckers and moved to the middle of the road outside for ages in what looked like an attempt to regroup. The owner mentioned he thought the hive may have "split" and as the Bee's were milling around they may have lost their Queen.
All I know is about 5 minutes before all this happened the owner had been lifting up an 93model L series with a big machine to tip it over so he could get the front exhaust section off for me. I was down below in the wreckers car park and could see things happening up the hill above me. I am wondering if he has disturbed the hive when moving the car past a tree or something like this. Bit scary though as was mentioned one sting and hospital could be the next port of call.
After I get to council later in the week (hopefully) I will let everyone know their response.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:00 pm

Hmm, sounds like a sticky situation alright (no pun intended) In any case it looks like they will have to be exterminated. Tree hive removals are very difficult and costly; not worth it to anyone. As for who pays for the exterminator you'd have to sort that out with your neighbor and council which could be an arduous process alright.

In the mean time be on the lookout for swarms coming from the hive; once the tree hollow is filled they will want to swarm, taking around half the bees and the old queen and flying off to find a new home and this is the right time of year for it. If it happens you will see a big cloud of bees suddenly appear from the hive, mill about for a bit and then fly off. Hopefully they will fly a few k's away but sometimes the can land a few meters away. Just stay inside while they are flying and you'll be fine.
Also I don't know the climate where you are but if there is a really hot day the bees might gather on the outside of the tree as a ball. This is to try and reduce the temperature inside the hive. They may be a little more aggressive in this state and during hot days generally.

If you are worried about snakes in the grass below and the grass absolutely has to be mown, at night is the best time since the bees are calming down for the night and not flying. They can still be aggravated however if it is an especially aggressive hive.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:07 pm

I've just set off a control bomb in my garden shed (with no ignition sources within ten metres) Wonder if one of these would work if :
you can reach hole covered completely
and can bust through the honeycomb to shove it in

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:22 pm

Thanks everyone for the advise and Silverbullet you have been invaluable.
I will take more notice now and watch for behaviour changes.
We about 150ks west of Newcastle in the Hunter Valley in NSW and temps can go up and down but typically we could be about 5 deg above Newcastle and/or Sydney at any given time. 40 degs + are not uncommon in Summer.

alang · Post by **alang** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:59 pm

if i was closer i would cut it down for you. we used to get wood out at timor on one of the properties it wasn't uncommon to drop a tree only to find bees in it. extra bit to take home was the honey comb

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:27 pm

Alan
Thanks for the offer.
Right now L series paintwork has me depressed enough.

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:49 pm

For a while there was a shortage of bees & therefore honey. So I wonder if you contact some beekeepers in your area if one might come & take them off your hands.

I would certainly be wary of them but unless you are allergic you prob wont need to go to hospital unless stung by quite a few. But I would suggest you avoid finding out lol.

Hope for your sake they just buzz off!

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:59 pm

nachaluva wrote:For a while there was a shortage of bees & therefore honey. So I wonder if you contact some beekeepers in your area if one might come & take them off your hands.

Be careful with talk like that around beekeepers, none of them like to work for free I can tell you first hand

Once I removed a swarm and only charged the cost of the parts to build a new hive box w/frames. When I told the pro beekeepers who I know I'd had my first swarm call-out they pushed me to tell them how much I charged and then we had a long discussion about charging for call-out and danger for climbing up a tree and how I was working for free etc etc

Difference was I needed the bees at that time, most big beekeepers don't need anymore hives and charge alot sometimes.

sublime · Post by **sublime** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:20 pm

How about you get your kids and family checked to see if anyone is allergic to bees?

You might find none of you are and there is nothing to worry about... (Just an idea!)

Cliff R · Post by **Cliff R** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:48 pm

As we were heading for Newcastle today I noted the "mower guy" starting to mow off in another paddock.
As it take him a couple of days at least to do the areas he has to below us I will see in a day or so if he does our bit. If he does no problem.
If he doesnt I will follow up with Council

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:27 pm

Silverbullet wrote:Be careful with talk like that around beekeepers, none of them like to work for free I can tell you first hand Once I removed a swarm and only charged the cost of the parts to build a new hive box w/frames. When I told the pro beekeepers who I know I'd had my first swarm call-out they pushed me to tell them how much I charged and then we had a long discussion about charging for call-out and danger for climbing up a tree and how I was working for free etc etc Difference was I needed the bees at that time, most big beekeepers don't need anymore hives and charge alot sometimes.

Ok, my bad, hope "them's fightin' words" doesnt apply

Cliff R wrote:As we were heading for Newcastle today I noted the "mower guy" starting to mow off in another paddock.
As it take him a couple of days at least to do the areas he has to below us I will see in a day or so if he does our bit. If he does no problem.
If he doesnt I will follow up with Council

I would say your point of needing the grass mowed for snake safety would be a good one, esp if you mention you have kids & if anyone was to be stung / envenomated by a snake or a bee & needed hospitilisation then the local news media would get the full story of council being warned of the danger yet refusing to do anything. All pollies hate bad press so it might be the needed incentive

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:01 pm

This is one reason why I love living out of town where your neighbours are far away. Our closest is 700m on the other side of a hill. Bliss!

I do hope that you get something sorted though. One other way to do it is to cap the entrance(s) if possible - at night when they're not active. Then let the hive exhaust themselves and extinguish their existence. Problem with this is that you need to get all entrances, even if there's a gap big enough for one bee they'll get out...

^ That and it can be seen as inhumane...

Cheers

Bennie

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:26 pm

Nah them's weren't fighting words nachaluva

Just didn't want anyone to ring up a local beek and ask him to remove it for nothing, they are strange people at times and a request like that could cop someone an earful

Not me though, I just politely decline

Oh and For what Bennie said, that's possible but can be tricky; if you mess up with the entrance-blocking they will pour out and all over you night or day...ask me how I know

Also if you ever come across a hive in a roof space don't block the entrance, it will only push them deeper into the roof space looking for a way out and sometimes into the house!