Mig welder Help

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:16 pm

Hi guys,

I got this welder free, long story. It works but i need a gas bottle. I'm have no clue as to how to use it. So could you guys help me as to what dial button does what?

Thx

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:28 pm

ooooh! Guyph very nice score!
takes me back a decade or two!!!!

Dials ; from the top
1 amps
2 wire speed
3 timer (for stitching?????)

And its a Turbo

I fully expect to see some masterpieces come out of you now!
Mate you will love it

I never really mastered stick welding (vertical ups grrrr)
But when I was first set my eyes on mig I fell in love

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:30 pm

Well I got it off a guy called Shaun Whitehead, Well F*%Khead i should say. He is/was a panel beater, not sure, And he had painted my car, my brothers car and a mates car so he was quite trust worthy until the last car that we gave him to paint, Paid upfront, without a receipt, and after 9 month it was still not painted, so we took the car back, sold it as is and lost money. Now the we were after the $700 that we paid him and that took another 6month and still no money returned. In the mean time he had move shops and i guess owed big money to many people including the last shop owner where he was renting. The shop at that stage was always closed and the next door shops said that he only went there late night to work on the cars or do what ever he did. I ask a few other shops to let me know if they saw him and luckily the last time i saw him was when i got a call for the next door shop, hurried down with my bro and told Shaun that we were not leaving until we got our money.

He obviously didn't have it so i took the welder and a bench grinder as a deposit and signed papers saying that he would get them back when he gave the money back. There was also this big air comp but he didn't let me take it. Now that i think about it, it would have been better for me to have taken something he said no than things he said yes as he needed it or it was worth more. Anyway by this time the roller doors of his unit was blocked buy the owners huge earth moving tractor to stop him taking his car and shit and run.

That was the last time i saw him and its been another 5months. As i had left my num with the other shops, the owner one day called me and asked if i had some info on him as he had cut open the back metal wall of the unit and diapered!!!

Anyway that what i was told and my side of the story... Maybe some else has had issues with that guy and tell you there story...

What is that thing worth anyway?? I guess it mine now or until i get my $700 back. Also what happens if a vary the Amps? And do i always use the timer?
Whats the little switch on top of the timer? is it to disable it, on/off?

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:42 pm

Sh1t Guyph that sucks big time! Trustworthy til the last time is not trustworthy

yeah switch turns timer on and off (someone else please verify as I never used the timer)
when mig welding you need to balance the amps and wire feed for a nice crackle when you are welding
takess a little practice to balance those and your handpiece speed for a quality weld

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:46 pm

Is there an average starting point? And then what more speed or more amps would do to the quality or the welds etc?

And whats it worth? Plz don;t say $100 lol

FROG · Post by **FROG** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:49 pm

All welders are different just try it out, its a fine art I reckon
luckily you have grinder too

not sure what that would be worth
mine were always supplied by employer

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:00 pm

Subyroo · Post by **Subyroo** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:22 pm

According to a U.K. website 450.00 GBP which at today's rate = 664.10 AUD, but that is brand new price too.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:44 am

I once watched an experienced welder who borrowed a mig to use, he set himself up practice stuff to get the feel of the unit before he started his real welding. Guessing if he had his own to use it would have been straight into the job. Maybe some practice work first Guy.

ScubyRoo · Post by **ScubyRoo** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:58 am

Good score Gulph! Shame about the process, but not a bad outcome!

I have a 180 mig as well and similiar to Frog, never quite managed to get stick welding down fully - but mig welding... mmmmhmmm yum yum yum.

I'm completely self taught - check out 'welding tips and tricks' on you tube - the dude is amazing and I found his vids really helpful.

There is lots and lots of info online, try mig-welding.co.uk - probably the best online source I found.

In a nut shell:

Amp (Amperage) = power (heat)

Wire feed = speed of wire being fed into the weld

low amp + low wire speed = cool well and less penetration (great for thin stuff)

high amp + high wire speed = hot weld and more penetration (thick stuff)

Remember the above and you'll be pretty set. If you can keep that in mind it then becomes a case of 'is my wire speed too fast/slow' or 'is the power to low/high'?

Here's some tips

low amp + high wire speed = wire bouncing of work piece and discontinious weld, it'll feel like the gun bucks back in your hand a little. Either slowly increase the amps until it feels better (be carefully of blowing through your work peice on thin stuff!), or turn down your wire speed until the weld is continious. If the weld is raised and looks like a long worm then you need increase the pohwah!

high amp + low wire speed = burn back, where the weld runs out of wire and the wire can get burnt onto the contact tip (the little bit the wire feeds through)... Burn back is a PIA as it often ruins the contact tip (available cheaply at bunnings). Increase the wire speed.

A good way to avoid burn back is to maintain a constant distance between gun and work peice by resting your gun hand on your other hand/arm, or some other object (I've taken to pipe lately as the glove runs smoothly).

My first projects were things people don't see... a special tool to hold pullys in place when undoing their bolts, a sump guard, a few linkages and lots of other little things like that. I just finished a sweeet bike rack and some big projects are happening next month (lift kit, rear bar) - I have a trailer to build first!

If you want to get into welding with a bit of enthusiasm go to a hardware shop and get:

2 C clamps of larger size
2 quick clamps
Vice-grips
Bucket (for cooling small work peices)
Cut off saw (bunnings have one for about $150 which looks good)
Fire extinguisher

Most local metals suppliers have cut off scraps for free, take a few cold bevvies in on a friday afternoon and you'll get plenty to play with. I have a stack of it, I use it to get my settings right before making the actual project.

Have fun and show us some pics of your projects!

Cheers,
Owen.

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:40 am

Cool, Thx for that detailed explanation:) All my welding so far was done with my little stick, I made this rear bar with my stick

And my famous bird cage

And a few other things like custom gear links to suit the new gearboxes, my rear half lift kits in my car, etc. Not the nicest welds but very strong. Anyway i need to rent my self a bottle. Should i get a small, medium or a big one? I was told the bigger the cheaper it is in the long run. But i'm not sure of the rates or where i can get it in WA?

What i'm building or going to build at the moment is a trailer for my little boat project. Next is my twin arm rear bar, can't wait.

alang · Post by **alang** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:45 am

if you look inside near the wire drum you will see the wire connection for the gun and earth if you turn the polarity around you can use gas-less wire instead of forking out for argon gas all the time that's all i use on repairing and making trailers and 20 x 20 tubing

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:30 pm

Is it as easy to weld and strong? Might be the way to go...

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:43 pm

Some good tips there.

I'd also add keep the amps as high as possible for maximum penetration, but not to the point of blowing through.

Set the amps first to suit the steel being welded, then adjust the wire speed to suit the amps. Each welder is different so its just a matter of learning yours.

You're aiming for a smooth, steady crackling sound, bit like a machine gun.

Prepare the steel. Grind the area being welded so its clean & free from rust. Bevel the edges where appropriate to aid penetration. If doing very thick steel, esp if its structural, bevel it halfway & use several passes to fill. The 1st pass may be on a slightly lower amps setting but subsequent passes should be high.

When doing vertical welds, always weld in an upwards direction. This aids penetration & stops the weld "running".

Preferably weld in a "forehand" direction. As you hold the nozzle at approx 45 deg angle aimed along the join, move your hand forward, towards the nozzle. This is "forehand". Moving your hand away from the nozzle is "backhand". Forehand welding gives better "pooling" of the molten metal which aids penetration & gives better control.

As you move along the join, weave back & forth across the join, pausing very slightly each time. These are only very small movements, except on large work.

Practise joining some flat steel then put it in a vice to see how strong it is. If welded properly the weld is actually stronger than the surrounding steel!

Invest in a decent helmet & some welding gloves. NEVER EVER be tempted to weld without your visor down, even if its just a little spot weld. Flash burns from welding are severe & can cause permanent blindness!!! Even the reflected flash off concrete walls or floor can cause burns to your retina!

Electronic helmets are pretty cheap now. They are light enough so you can see your nozzle placement with the visor down, but adjusts automatically when you start welding. Very handy

As has been stated, practise, practise, practise

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:50 pm

alang wrote:if you look inside near the wire drum you will see the wire connection for the gun and earth if you turn the polarity around you can use gas-less wire instead of forking out for argon gas all the time that's all i use on repairing and making trailers and 20 x 20 tubing

guyph_01 wrote:Is it as easy to weld and strong? Might be the way to go...

Gasless is just as easy but not as strong. Not sure of the situation over there but here CIG have a scam running where they are the only place to get bottles from but charge like a wounded bull for bottle hire, last I heard was around $200 per year!!!

Refilling is cheap enough, its just the bottle hire is a ripoff

I have heard though you can get small bottles of argon from somewhere else...I'll have to investigate as I need to dust the cobwebs off my trusty welder

guyph_01 · Post by **guyph_01** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:19 pm

Cool.
Also, Lets say i know someone who bought a welder that came with a bottle and that now the bottle is his and not a rental. Can i just rock up and get it filled or do they take id and serial number etc and i'm gonna get fined or the bottle is going to get sized???

NachaLuva · Post by **NachaLuva** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:49 pm

guyph_01 wrote:Cool.
Also, Lets say i know someone who bought a welder that came with a bottle and that now the bottle is his and not a rental. Can i just rock up and get it filled or do they take id and serial number etc and i'm gonna get fined or the bottle is going to get sized???

Haha lol

You won't get fined but yes AFAIK each bottle has its own serial no which is recorded. Im guessing they will ask you for the rental when its due or retain the bottle, remembering its their property, you just rent it.

If they do keep the bottle, make sure you take the regulator off & keep it...its yours not theirs.

Just reread your post. If your "friend" lol, bought the bottle, it would still be a rental as it was never the previous owners property to sell. This is presuming it is a CIG bottle, which would be clearly marked.

Silverbullet · Post by **Silverbullet** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:35 pm

Something that hasn't been mentioned on MIG: Wire speed controls voltage. Higher wire speed = higher voltage.

When I was welding all day every day I found that Amps increases the physical size of the arc. Wire speed/voltage affects the "heat" of the arc. So you can crank it up to high on everything and have a big hot arc, good for thick plate and penetration. Or you can have low amps and higher voltage, this will create a smaller arc but very hot. This may or may not create more penetration depending on how fast you travel. When I was welding (production, 1000 parts a day:roll:) speed was the key so I set my amps low-ish and turned the wire speed up so more wire was going in to a hotter arc which allowed me to make the same weld twice as fast. If I traveled to slow in this state I would burn through or the hotter weld pool would get too big and leave a big ugly finished weld.
When I was still getting the hang of a new part/new weld I would keep the same amps but turn the wire speed down and travel slower; this allowed me time to think and look to see how the weld pool behaved while still getting the same finished weld. Then turn the wire speed up to crank out the parts.

High amps and low wire speed of course won't work very well; the machine would be trying to make a big arc but there's not enough metal going in to support it and you'd get spots and burn back.

Low amps and low wire speed would be good for light gauge plate where you want a thin weld (not much metal going in and cooler arc) and a smaller arc so you're not heating up a big area of the thin metal.

There are also ranges where this won't work; variables that need to be set for a certain setting to work well ie travel speed, position, electrode angle etc need to be right. It all comes down to practice and experience.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:04 pm

nachaluva wrote:Some good tips there.

I'd also add keep the amps as high as possible for maximum penetration, but not to the point of blowing through.

Set the amps first to suit the steel being welded, then adjust the wire speed to suit the amps. Each welder is different so its just a matter of learning yours.

You're aiming for a smooth, steady crackling sound, bit like a machine gun.

Prepare the steel. Grind the area being welded so its clean & free from rust. Bevel the edges where appropriate to aid penetration. If doing very thick steel, esp if its structural, bevel it halfway & use several passes to fill. The 1st pass may be on a slightly lower amps setting but subsequent passes should be high.

When doing vertical welds, always weld in an upwards direction. This aids penetration & stops the weld "running".

Preferably weld in a "forehand" direction. As you hold the nozzle at approx 45 deg angle aimed along the join, move your hand forward, towards the nozzle. This is "forehand". Moving your hand away from the nozzle is "backhand". Forehand welding gives better "pooling" of the molten metal which aids penetration & gives better control.

As you move along the join, weave back & forth across the join, pausing very slightly each time. These are only very small movements, except on large work.

Practise joining some flat steel then put it in a vice to see how strong it is. If welded properly the weld is actually stronger than the surrounding steel!

Invest in a decent helmet & some welding gloves. NEVER EVER be tempted to weld without your visor down, even if its just a little spot weld. Flash burns from welding are severe & can cause permanent blindness!!! Even the reflected flash off concrete walls or floor can cause burns to your retina!

Electronic helmets are pretty cheap now. They are light enough so you can see your nozzle placement with the visor down, but adjusts automatically when you start welding. Very handy

As has been stated, practise, practise, practise

Glad I read this now... Think I need to up the amps a little more. It should be good. Good advice!

guyph_01 wrote:Cool.
Also, Lets say i know someone who bought a welder that came with a bottle and that now the bottle is his and not a rental. Can i just rock up and get it filled or do they take id and serial number etc and i'm gonna get fined or the bottle is going to get sized???

In the world of BOC there's no such thing as an owner's bottle. They'll do one of two things - either take the bottle off you as the exchange bottle, or they'll do that < and charge you the rental for having the bottle. Yes a bastard thing to do, but they also won't refund on a mistake made on your account either - the guy I got another bottle from on Monday told me this as I commented on how thorough he was with the documenting of the exchange.

Bottle rental is at least $200.00 per year per bottle for an E size bottle (big one). Exchange I don't know, it's all on my uncles account.
15kg roll of wire, estimated last purchase at $40 to $50, will find out the range of prices when I do a ring around the district tomorrow for a new roll of wire (0.9mm).

Apparently 0.6mm wire is good for a cooler weld, best used with working on panels in very small doses so you reduce the possibility of warping the panel.

When you change the wire size, you need to change the end nozzle on the welding handle to fit the wire properly and the feeder wheels need to be changed too. I found this out tonight, and I also found that with the longest feeder hose the 0.6mm wire doesn't feed - as suspected by my uncle but said to give it ago anyway.

Cheers

Bennie

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:38 pm

Ah yeah, and as other have said - practise practise practise - especially if you're starting on a different set of material thicknesses that you haven't used before or can't remember what settings work best. Keep records of what settings work best with the types of material being used

Personally, I love welding and really trying to master the perfect weld, in the stick area this is when the slag peels itself off the weld as it cools

Cheers

Bennie