Changing final drive ratios seems to be unpopular... Why?

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Gannon
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Post by Gannon » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:55 pm

El_Freddo wrote:
Originally Posted by RSR 555
4.44 manual with centre diff lock is available but not in dual range.. it comes in the form of a 22B
Really?!! I never knew this and that's totally awesome! Do you know if this is the same pinion setup as the EJ or the EA AWD gearbox?? If it's the EJ set it must be possible to get those tools to make some more - for a massive wad of cash!
I think Paul is referring to the DCCD centre diff

For those who haven't come across one before, it is an open centre diff with a rear biased gearing, plus an electromagnetic clutch that provides slip limiting.

So it can vary the static front/rear torque split from 35/65 in full open mode right up to 50/50 in locked mode, or anywhere in-between.

Very similar in concept to the VTD found in some turbo auto boxes
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2nd Hand Yank
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Post by 2nd Hand Yank » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:20 pm

taza wrote:If it were me (might be since I just bought an L-Series today. lol) I would put in an EJ22 behind the stock gearbox. Through a LSD in the rear, some 27" tyres and 4" of lift (from stock) and call it a day. That would do well offroad, have decent gearing and enough power to back it up.

The AWD from a stand still makes the enigne work harder to take off, especially on a hill. I find that when I drive a FWD or sometimes RWD car I spin the wheels alot as I take off as im used to giving it ~3000rpm then planting my foot to the floor for a quick take off when pulling out of an interection or the likes..
Cheers mate. :)

Seems like I'm due for a motor swap... Death rattles have subsided, but my already slow motor seems to gum-up easily and I have to check at least monthly my air cleaner isn't fouled, sometimes spray in carby cleaner to the car etc...

I'm still interested in RSR555's design for a 3" lift. I didn't have time to get it done in Perth, but maybe I can get it done here in Townsville. :)

Luke82 managed to fit 225/70R-15's (28's) under his L Series, no lift, just stock height stiff springs and a lot of fender trimming. His bonnet was about the same height as my L Series. Heaps more ground clearance though from bigger tyres, obviously.

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taza
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Post by taza » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:28 am

2nd Hand Yank wrote:Cheers mate. :)

Seems like I'm due for a motor swap... Death rattles have subsided, but my already slow motor seems to gum-up easily and I have to check at least monthly my air cleaner isn't fouled, sometimes spray in carby cleaner to the car etc...

I'm still interested in RSR555's design for a 3" lift. I didn't have time to get it done in Perth, but maybe I can get it done here in Townsville. :)

Luke82 managed to fit 225/70R-15's (28's) under his L Series, no lift, just stock height stiff springs and a lot of fender trimming. His bonnet was about the same height as my L Series. Heaps more ground clearance though from bigger tyres, obviously.
Cool, maybe those tyres and wheels might be the go with an EJ22.

My $300 L seems to be relatively quick, certainly quicker at certain speeds depending on the your in gear compared to my Foz.
Has a head gasket issue which should hopefully be fixed with some chem-i-weld... this is cause it to miss a cylinder but still im suprised by the power! It is on stock 13" rims and tyres so that definately helps ;)

Wouldn't yo 2" lift with some bigger tyres make a good enough difference. After thinking how much my 2.5" helps in the foz and wanting slightly more im going to leave it until it comes time for tyres as it does the job and I don't need to waste money there.

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2nd Hand Yank
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Post by 2nd Hand Yank » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:19 pm

taza wrote:Cool, maybe those tyres and wheels might be the go with an EJ22.

My $300 L seems to be relatively quick, certainly quicker at certain speeds depending on the your in gear compared to my Foz.
Has a head gasket issue which should hopefully be fixed with some chem-i-weld... this is cause it to miss a cylinder but still im suprised by the power! It is on stock 13" rims and tyres so that definately helps ;)

Wouldn't yo 2" lift with some bigger tyres make a good enough difference. After thinking how much my 2.5" helps in the foz and wanting slightly more im going to leave it until it comes time for tyres as it does the job and I don't need to waste money there.
Another similar/same diameter tyre is the 215/75R15. Do you really think stock gearing plus an EJ22 would be good? As is with my tyre size, I don't consider my gearing to be "low." Idle speed is around 7 km/h. I'm just hoping the idle speed won't be over 10 km/h.

I'm envious you found one you like for so cheap. I was new to Oz and in a pinch for some wheels. Couldn't wait a few months for the best deal. I still wish I had electric windows. Other than that I'm happy with my L Series. Maybe a door panel swap wouldn't be terribly hard? :-? (and keep my current window tint? :D)

I think it's the 13" wheels that make your L Series feel powerful. I'm considering buying some 13" wheels for highway cruising. I've met a few people that reckoned they're better for fuel economy. Now that 91 octane is passing the $1.50 mark here in North QLD. :rolleyes:

Chem-i-weld?

So tyre clearance is the only reason you want the 4" lift? :confused:
Fender trimming should be able to solve that.
Get RSR 555's 3" lift kit and you'll be laughing. :) (I still want it :p)

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Post by RSR 555 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:54 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Really?!! I never knew this and that's totally awesome! Do you know if this is the same pinion setup as the EJ or the EA AWD gearbox?? If it's the EJ set it must be possible to get those tools to make some more - for a massive wad of cash!

I think you've forgotten the requirement of a cut and shut on the pinion gear if you go with the 4.11:1 final drive and the Vortex (or DR L series) AWD with centre diff lock rear case. You can't have both without some custom work.
Oh.. yes you are right Bennie. I forgot about this. It's been too long since I did my box.

So to clarify..

If using an EJ motor then use a Forester or Outback box (4.11 ratio) with a DCCD rear. You would need to make a new gearbox crossmember but from memory you can use most of a Outback/Forester one. Also need tail shaft mod.

If using an EA motor then use a Vortex AWD with diff lock box and modify the crown wheel and pinion to suit the EA box. This box would require NO tailshaft or crossmember mods.
Gannon wrote:I think Paul is referring to the DCCD centre diff
Yep.. DCCD is the easiest and IMO the cheapest as long as you can fine a reasonably priced unit.
2nd Hand Yank wrote:I'm still interested in RSR555's design for a 3" lift. I didn't have time to get it done in Perth, but maybe I can get it done here in Townsville. :)
Can build and send across for you to fit :)

BTW.. did you ever leave that board (from that L.Series storage thing) in WA?
2nd Hand Yank wrote:Chem-i-weld?
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d_generate
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Post by d_generate » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:40 pm

That Chemi Weld is great, we ran it in our taxi for about 500,00km, it got to the stage where we were adding a bottle a week & pretty much running it pure before we finally fixed the car lol, main thing is to do a long run as soon as you put it in.
98 Libbo with V3 STI running gear. 13.0 @ 105mph with CAI & 3" Zorst:mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKrsF-2JS3M :twisted:
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Post by El_Freddo » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:10 am

d_generate wrote:That Chemi Weld is great, we ran it in our taxi for about 500,00km, it got to the stage where we were adding a bottle a week & pretty much running it pure before we finally fixed the car lol, main thing is to do a long run as soon as you put it in.
That's gold! Did you have to take out shares?? :P

For the EA82, the stock 23 inch tyres are going to be the best performance you can get and possibly be the best economy too. Dunno because I no longer have the EA82, but when I had the MPFI it was great on fuel even when giving it heaps :twisted:

Cheers

Bennie
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taza
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Post by taza » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:23 pm

2nd Hand Yank wrote:Another similar/same diameter tyre is the 215/75R15. Do you really think stock gearing plus an EJ22 would be good? As is with my tyre size, I don't consider my gearing to be "low." Idle speed is around 7 km/h. I'm just hoping the idle speed won't be over 10 km/h.
If I were you I would stay with 26-27" tyres on 14" rims. Possibly some mild All Terrain tyres. That with an EJ22 and your stock gearbox would be fine. Bennie seems to to find it adequate :)
I think it's the 13" wheels that make your L Series feel powerful. I'm considering buying some 13" wheels for highway cruising. I've met a few people that reckoned they're better for fuel economy. Now that 91 octane is passing the $1.50 mark here in North QLD. :rolleyes:
Probably. If you read what I wrote below the fuel economy even with giving the car a good boot full was really good and power was easily adequate (of course the car isn't loaded up though) and we through in 20l of octane98 for the hell of it.
Chem-i-weld?
You put it in your radiator, its ment to stop leaks whether they be radiator, head gasket or the likes. Seems to of done the job in mine :mrgreen: Cost $10 for a bottle.
So tyre clearance is the only reason you want the 4" lift? :confused:
Fender trimming should be able to solve that.
Get RSR 555's 3" lift kit and you'll be laughing. :) (I still want it :p)
In the foz, yes. 4" including tyres though. The tyres aren't going to rub on the fenders, mainly on the actually body of the car on full lock only.
d_generate wrote:That Chemi Weld is great, we ran it in our taxi for about 500,00km, it got to the stage where we were adding a bottle a week & pretty much running it pure before we finally fixed the car lol, main thing is to do a long run as soon as you put it in.
Yeah, sure is, its fixed the head gasket issue the L had. Yeah took it for a 120km run accross Perth with no number plates. lol
El_Freddo wrote:For the EA82, the stock 23 inch tyres are going to be the best performance you can get and possibly be the best economy too. Dunno because I no longer have the EA82, but when I had the MPFI it was great on fuel even when giving it heaps :twisted:
Yeah very true, although mine isnt even running on all 4 cylinder properly its quite torquey, especially down low and quite quick(for what it is of course). Getting new tyres tomorrow with are the stock 23", don't want to hurt performance or economy(trying to tell myself its not going to me modded). Ive now one 200km in it on 16l of fuel and we were spinning the front wheels on take off(due to being completely bald) and giving it abit of a boot full to see what she has (power wise) and it went really well.

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Post by 2nd Hand Yank » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:15 pm

RSR 555 wrote: Can build and send across for you to fit :)

BTW.. did you ever leave that board (from that L.Series storage thing) in WA?



http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online ... escription
Bonza mate! 8)
I wonder how much the shipping costs would be.

Yes I left that board at TOONGA's house in Australind. :mrgreen:

cheers

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Post by 2nd Hand Yank » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:25 pm

El_Freddo wrote:That's gold! Did you have to take out shares?? :P

For the EA82, the stock 23 inch tyres are going to be the best performance you can get and possibly be the best economy too. Dunno because I no longer have the EA82, but when I had the MPFI it was great on fuel even when giving it heaps :twisted:

Cheers

Bennie
So you had better economy with a EA82 MPFI? :confused:
Is that because of the tyre size too you ran with it?

I'm trying to figure out if I want a EJ motor.
I find my EA82's power to be fairly-adequate below 90 km/h.
If a EA82 MPFI is noticeably more economical than a EJ22, I might prefer one.
The extra 15% horsepower would likely solve my issues above 90 km/h.

My car's economy is almost the same, driving nice or driving naughty. :p
10-ish L/100km for regular driving, 10.75-11.5 L/100km if I'm flogging it a lot.
I wouldn't consider "good economy" anything over 9.0 L/100km.

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Post by taza » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:17 pm

2nd Hand Yank wrote:So you had better economy with a EA82 MPFI? :confused:
Is that because of the tyre size too you ran with it?

I'm trying to figure out if I want a EJ motor.
I find my EA82's power to be fairly-adequate below 90 km/h.
If a EA82 MPFI is noticeably more economical than a EJ22, I might prefer one.
The extra 15% horsepower would likely solve my issues above 90 km/h.

My car's economy is almost the same, driving nice or driving naughty. :p
10-ish L/100km for regular driving, 10.75-11.5 L/100km if I'm flogging it a lot.
I wouldn't consider "good economy" anything over 9.0 L/100km.
I found mine was getting below 9l per 100km and it wasn't even running on all 4 cylinder properly and I was flogging it. Possibly the 14" rims and tyres. I just got a new set of tyres (stock size for the 13's) really cheap today.

If you are going to upgrade the engine go EJ. I also found that power wasn't an issue at all over 90km/hr in my L. It had a better 5th gear pull from 80-110km/hr than the foz in 5th gear! I wouldn't say quick but definately spritely.

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Post by MTB92 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:30 pm

2nd Hand Yank wrote: I'm trying to figure out if I want a EJ motor.
I find my EA82's power to be fairly-adequate below 90 km/h.
If a EA82 MPFI is noticeably more economical than a EJ22, I might prefer one.
The extra 15% horsepower would likely solve my issues above 90 km/h.
I dont think there is really any other way of putting it than to say your mad if you want to try and convert your l to mpfi EA82. An EJ is better in pretty much everyway, and the same amount of work to put in pretty much. if you want an mpfi, sell your wagon and buy an mpfi L series with everything in there stock.

all the talk of the ea's making their torque lower and being more useable when 4wd etc is only true to a point. even though the EA's make max torque lower, i am pretty sure an EJ22 has plenty more torque at the same rpm, its just from there it gets even better! :D

i would like to see a graph comparing rpm/torque for the 2 motors. :rolleyes:

and as for fuel, i am going under 10L/100k with an ej22 which is as good as i ever got with the EA82.

also on the tyres, its up to you but be careful of going too big. I have been 4wding with Luke82 (at least i think it was him, in the red L) and his massive tyres looked great and i am sure would be useful on a boggy beach. going up dunes he just didn't have the grunt mine did with just standard 14's on (this is when mine was still EA). having the torque is more important than the hight, a subies ground clearance is really not that bad compared to most 4wd's. ;)

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Post by d_generate » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:11 am

Couldn't agree more on tyre size with the 1.8's, I think I'd rather throw an extra inch lift in than run 27's, I don't even want to go higher in mine, just go from 205/60 to 225/60, funny how you guys talk about low down torque, my 2L STI Liberty will happily go from 30kph to well over 230kph in 5th gear without a hiccup mainly because of the cams and it's not on boost until about 110kph, maybe you guys need more aggressive cams to bring the grunt on down lower, I'm sure someone must make them, what about the turbo motors, were they different cams? probably the opposite to what you'd need though.
98 Libbo with V3 STI running gear. 13.0 @ 105mph with CAI & 3" Zorst:mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKrsF-2JS3M :twisted:
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