Locking Diffs

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:42 pm

Ok so;
1. What type of diffs do brumbys have?
2. Did Subaru make locking diffs?
3. Can they be placed in a brumby with little modification?
4. Has anyone used aftermarket lockers? Electronic or air?

I'm just looking to put in some sort of locking diffs that I can put in and use while still in the car. (a switch)

Cheers Cam

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:45 pm

Ok. First off - there are no manual locking front or rear diffs available for subarus. There are however, auto lockers for the rear end - these were a limited run, apparently by a rally mob in the 80's did a limited run of them (this could be subaru offroad myth). I know someone with one in his MY wagon - it goes VERY well offroad.

Taza is in the middle of a project for an R160 manual locker rear diff - but he's busy with other things at the moment. I hope this gets into production and beyond.

I know the rear diff is an R160 - the same as the old datsuns. The front diff, I have no idea if this is the same as other vehicles out there, but it's a little bigger than the rear diff.

The only thing available to us at the moment are LSDs front and rear. It's the "only best" option we have

I also know another fella who has fitted a hilux air locker into the back of his MY wagon - he had to shorten one drive shaft and fab up a lot of stuff to do it though. The diff "pumpkin" hangs lower than stock due to the extra diametre of the crown wheel.

You don't have a centre diff - the EA's came with a dog clutch type arrangement that simply engages or disengages the drive to the rear end. The best setup for offroading. This is effectively the same as the locking centre diff of the L series AWD gearboxes, just without the onroad advantage of AWD.

I hope this gives you some ideas

Cheers

Bennie

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:20 am

El_Freddo wrote:Ok. First off - there are no manual locking front or rear diffs available for subarus. There are however, auto lockers for the rear end - these were a limited run, apparently by a rally mob in the 80's did a limited run of them (this could be subaru offroad myth). I know someone with one in his MY wagon - it goes VERY well offroad.

Taza is in the middle of a project for an R160 manual locker rear diff - but he's busy with other things at the moment. I hope this gets into production and beyond.

Might be an auto-locker instead after some work rather than a manual locker

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:32 am

Auto!

I was REALLY REALLY looking forward to a manual locker arriving...

I think I'm going to cry mate!

Cheers

Bennie

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:16 pm

El_Freddo wrote:Auto!

I was REALLY REALLY looking forward to a manual locker arriving...

I think I'm going to cry mate!

Cheers

Bennie

It's only a trial. I've come accross some parts to do it . If it doesn't work I can use that design and modify/redo it!

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:19 pm

Ok so I think ATM my options are...
Pay lotsa money at a 4wd shop to fit one.

Get Front and back LSD's ( where can I get them from?)
Or wait for taza to complete his and see what I can do.

Now LSD s you don't do anything with. Set and forget
What is the difference between manual and auto lockers?
What is the best way to keep my ea dog box while still having lockers?

Cheers Cam

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:28 pm

Brumby Kid wrote:Ok so I think ATM my options are...
Pay lotsa money at a 4wd shop to fit one.
Get Front and back LSD's ( where can I get them from?)
Or wait for taza to complete his and see what I can do.

Now LSD s you don't do anything with. Set and forget
What is the difference between manual and auto lockers?
What is the best way to keep my ea dog box while still having lockers?

Cheers Cam

There currently aren't any for Subarus unless you fit an R180 to the rear instead of the stock diff and put an ARB air-locker in. This is very very costly, more than what your brumby would be worth!

LSD's, i don't know if you can do the front in a Brumby or L-series... someone else can shed some light here.
You can get them for the rear but they are expensive. $1000-1500 plus fitting and shipping if you get it from overseas.
Yes with LSd's once there in you don't touch them unless its a clutch type then it will need adjusting every few years. A geared type and there is no maintenance.

My locker thingy should be coming out this year once I get my Forester sorted (gearbox blew up) then I can trial and test that.

An auto locker locks by itself but can act the same as a welded diff onroad. A manual locker you physically engage it either by button or lever just like you do to go from 2WD to 4WD.

Taza

B00sting · Post by **B00sting** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:14 pm

taza wrote:There currently aren't any for Subarus unless you fit an R180 to the rear instead of the stock diff and put an ARB air-locker in. This is very very costly, more than what your brumby would be worth!

This is what i'm going to do, either with the r180 or the r200. or something completely different. i dont care about the cost i like cars that are different.

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:32 pm

What I'd the difference between all the mentioned diffs?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:37 pm

God I wish one of you people could try a Detroit style "auto unlocker" center . I want someone else to report what a bastard of a thing they are to live with in anything that gets driven on the street . They are livable for a day or two and when reality sets in you can't wait to rip it out .
Anyway don't take my word for it , or the rally peoples who tried them in Datsuns with H series diffs .
I still get to drive 12-13 tonne AWD Isuzus with these "things" in the bum and they just as catankerous (sp ?) as they were in my Bluebird 15 yrs ago .
Much prefer 4/6WD trucks with manual locking diffs .

A .

B00sting · Post by **B00sting** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:20 pm

i wouldn't use an auto locker stuff that.
air locker is the way to go (or any other manual way).

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:22 pm

B00sting wrote:i wouldn't use an auto locker stuff that.
air locker is the way to go (or any other manual way).

Are they really that bad?

I am slightly worried about trying on in an AWD vehicle and *&^%ing my new centre diff and whole new gearbox..

Venom · Post by **Venom** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:23 pm

My first car has a detroit locker, didn't bother me for the 4 years i drove it every day. Doesn't bother me now its back on the road. Only became an issue when i was been a silly p-plater around corners.

Subaruby's MY wagon had a detroit locker in it since he bought it 5? or more years ago. Apart from making some grumbly noises around corners he hasn't made any mention of it been troublesome.

Would be interesting to know what alldrivesubaru say about their gearbox warranties running a rear detroit locker though.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:30 pm

Venom wrote:Subaruby's MY wagon had a detroit locker in it since he bought it 5? or more years ago. Apart from making some grumbly noises around corners he hasn't made any mention of it been troublesome.

He picked it up for a steal some time ago now! From what we've talked about, it's not troublesome on road but this is probably due to it not having power when cornering. But with that said the AWD landcruiser boys run an auto locker in the rear without any issues - Phiz's brother is one of them.

Cheers

Bennie

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:32 pm

So I can do something with the rear (keep talking and discussing what we can do plz)
But what can I do for the front?

Cheers Cam

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Venom wrote:My first car has a detroit locker, didn't bother me for the 4 years i drove it every day. Doesn't bother me now its back on the road. Only became an issue when i was been a silly p-plater around corners.

Subaruby's MY wagon had a detroit locker in it since he bought it 5? or more years ago. Apart from making some grumbly noises around corners he hasn't made any mention of it been troublesome.

Would be interesting to know what alldrivesubaru say about their gearbox warranties running a rear detroit locker though.

Im guessing your first car isn't a Subaru? It's not a detroit locker im going to be testing... a different kind of auto-locker.. I want to test it first before getting anyones hopes up about it..

El_Freddo wrote:He picked it up for a steal some time ago now! From what we've talked about, it's not troublesome on road but this is probably due to it not having power when cornering. But with that said the AWD landcruiser boys run an auto locker in the rear without any issues - Phiz's brother is one of them.

But aren't they electrontic the AWD in them unlike our manual Subies with a centre diff. I would of thought it would put uneven pressure on the centre diff like running a different size spare damaging it.

Im not willing to test the auto locker in my Foz though, will give it a crack in the L-series first and if it works someone else can test it in their AWD subie.

Venom wrote:Only became an issue when i was been a silly p-plater around corners.

LOL
What happened when you tried that?

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:16 pm

taza wrote:Im guessing your first car isn't a Subaru?

Nope, it was a rear wheel drive something - I'll let Venom tell you more about it if he wants. It's sweet though!

taza wrote:But aren't they electrontic the AWD in them unlike our manual Subies with a centre diff. I would of thought it would put uneven pressure on the centre diff like running a different size spare damaging it.

I don't know about the electronic AWD thing with the cruisers.

As for the centre diff thing, I don't think it will be an issue - the centre diff is like your rear diff, it works between two things that can rotate at different speeds so that it "differentiates" the power. The LSD attached to the centre diff is there so that if you get a wheel in the air (say a really large pot hole) it's not going to just spin that wheel and leave you stuck there.

The rear locker will simply lock the rear wheels together. The centre diff will be fine as it's only working between the front and rear axles.

taza wrote:Im not willing to test the auto locker in my Foz though, will give it a crack in the L-series first and if it works someone else can test it in their AWD subie.

When you do it in the L series you'll find that the rear wheels trying to spin at the same speed around corners will rob power - use the right foot to overcome this

What you'll also find is that it's easier to get out of 4wd with the rear locked - that's what I found with the welded rear anyway.

Cheers

Bennie

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:19 pm

El_Freddo wrote:When you do it in the L series you'll find that the rear wheels trying to spin at the same speed around corners will rob power - use the right foot to overcome this What you'll also find is that it's easier to get out of 4wd with the rear locked - that's what I found with the welded rear anyway.

May I ask why you don't have a welded rear diff then still?

Brumby Kid · Post by **Brumby Kid** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:24 pm

Okay welded or locked diffs are great if your 4wding or drifting.
Really awefull for normal driving around a corner.
The physics... Inside wheel travels les than the outside, so the inside turns slower than the outside. The diff let's them turn at own speeds, or if one is spinning free the other stops.
Which is what you don't want as a 4wder. When locked they spin at the same speed together always.

Cheers Cam

taza · Post by **taza** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Brumby Kid wrote:Okay welded or locked diffs are great if your 4wding or drifting.
Really awefull for normal driving around a corner.
The physics... Inside wheel travels les than the outside, so the inside turns slower than the outside. The diff let's them turn at own speeds, or if one is spinning free the other stops.
Which is what you don't want as a 4wder. When locked they spin at the same speed together always.

Cheers Cam

I understand that but does that mean the car would side out around corners if you give it too much power or what?