AWD SF Foz Gearbox issues

[taza]

Well guys as of late the gearbox in my Foz hasn't felt normal...

The box is a fully reconditioned SF Forester box, done 30,000km, has the 1.447 low range and 4.11 diffs.

Now the wierd thing is that it is hard to change gears, as in you physically have to use a fair amount of force to get the gears to slot in. This is all gears 1-5 (reverse is fine). Doesn't matter if it's in low or high range. Warm or cold.
I have changed the oil with fully synthetic oil and that has changed nothing. It doesn't grind, crunch, slip or anything, they are just hard to put in. Gears 1-4 are the most noticable.

Any ideas? Possibly to do with the linkages? it is gradually getting harder to get into gears...
I just think it is odd that all the gears are like that..

To note; there is a broken engine mount and the motor has a miss on all 4 cylinders aswell as a busted cv boot on the front. A new rear diff was put in a month ago, a VLSD from a 2004 Forester

[AlpineRaven]

Changed the oil and didn't change anything...hmm.. Have you checked the clutch cable or clutch assembly section - even cable is not sticky?

Was it like that after rebuild or it gotten worse over the time since rebuild? linkages cannot fail because they have split pins in them unless they break with great force.

When you got the gearbox rebuilt - does it have an warranty on it? And also what was the purpose that it was rebuilt?
Cheers
AP

[taza]

No I haven't checked the clutch cable/Assembly... Clutch feels normal to use...

It has been fine since the rebuild up until about 3-4 weeks ago where the gear shifter feels tighter/tougher to put into gear.
I bought a reconditioned gearbox as my old box(150,000km on it) had a whine in the centre diff, wouldn't go into reverse gear and I shattered 1st gear in the end.
This new one had all new syncro's and bearing and new genuine centre diff, costed a few grand... The warranty has probably expired by now.
I am just wondering what would cause that to happen on all the gears, because the box can come out in a few weeks for work when the new EJ25 goes in.

[RSR 555]

Taz.. the clutch pedal might feel still the same, but what you'll need to check is the 'travel' that the clutch fork is moving. You might have a very slight internal leak in you master cylinder. Does seem strange to have a rebuilt gearbox have problems after 30,000kms. Have you spoken to the guys that rebuilt it?

[AlpineRaven]

Taz.. the clutch pedal might feel still the same, but what you'll need to check is the 'travel' that the clutch fork is moving. You might have a very slight internal leak in you master cylinder. Does seem strange to have a rebuilt gearbox have problems after 30,000kms. Have you spoken to the guys that rebuilt it?

Its not the first time I've heard of this - someone said to me that his clutch was so heavy and was getting heavier so he went through the lengths to replace the clutch to new one and it was still heavy - I told him to check the clutch cable (dried up lube in the cable) - that was the result.
Clutch might also feel "normal" but just check and maybe tighten it a bit. Also the fork could be bent as it can happen.

If i were you - I would speak to that person who rebuilt the gearbox.
Cheers
AP

[guyph_01]

Maybe you should drive less in low range on the road, giving it less shit, less wheel spin etc and maybe, just maybe both the engine and box would last longer

But yeah could be your clutch is getting low, Bent or failing clutch fork or less travel on the fork due to a leaking Master/slave cyl.

You could have or the start of something like this....

[AlpineRaven]

Maybe you should drive less in low range on the road, giving it less shit, less wheel spin etc and maybe, just maybe both the engine and box would last longer

But yeah could be your clutch is getting low, Bent or failing clutch fork or less travel on the fork due to a leaking Master/slave cyl.

You could have or the start of something like this....

Hah that is one of the lines that I am talking about! All you need is for someone to observe the clutch see if it looks moving correctly and if youre lucky enough is to get a pen torch in the hole see if its moving correctly while the gearbox is in place - that would eliminate problems.

Another question I want to ask if you're able to do this - clutchless gear changing from after 1st to 5th and downshift (used do that with my liberty a lot and i know its bad but was pretty good at) while in motion by revving the engine to certain rpm while selecting into gears without crunching - does it feel stiff in the gear selector?
Cheers
AP

[El_Freddo]

I want to ask if you're able to do this - clutchless gear changing from after 1st to 5th and downshift (used do that with my liberty a lot and i know its bad but was pretty good at) while in motion by revving the engine to certain rpm while selecting into gears without crunching - does it feel stiff in the gear selector?

I was also going to say this too. A good driver should be matching revs as close as possible on every gear change if they're paying attention/know the vehicle. Less wear on the clutch and easier on the gearbox too.

The trick to this is to get to know at what speed and revs the gears mesh in together to make it smooth. I drove 350km without a clutch through mountainous terrain from Mt Hotham to Lakes Entrance and half way back - when the clutch disc disintegrated, this was probably the cause of the initial clutch problem.

I highly doubt that this issue is with the gearbox, you're just stressing that you've spent all this money on it. I'm with Paul on the clutch issue. And it could possibly be an issue with the fork, mine started to do the same some time ago and I had a stock clutch pressure plate in there! I think lube is the key to this one.

Look at the small cheap, easy things then look for the bigger stuff.

And before you jump on your "subarus are crap and not a real 4wd" bandwagon, it's all about how you use or abuse your vehicle! You can abuse a unimog and it'll still fall apart on you frequently - and cost a pot load of money to fix it!

I'm betting on (and hoping for you) it's the hydraulic clutch setup.

Cheers

Bennie

[tambox]

I agree with what you said.
Unimog example, one of my tractors is 40% Unimog, hit a drain, the Brumby would have happily bounced over, killed the tractor.
The engine mounts allowed the motor to move, so the oil pump hit the chassis and broke off.
$3000+ later, fixed it.

Could have bought a few spare paddock bomb Brumby's for that. It is amazing what you can get a Subaru to do, for what they cost.

[RSR 555]

It is amazing what you can get a Subaru to do, for what they cost.

Where's the 'like' button

[taza]

Taz.. the clutch pedal might feel still the same, but what you'll need to check is the 'travel' that the clutch fork is moving. You might have a very slight internal leak in you master cylinder. Does seem strange to have a rebuilt gearbox have problems after 30,000kms. Have you spoken to the guys that rebuilt it?

No I haven't spoken to them yet.... I think I will do..

I have changed the master cylinder about 2 years ago now, done 90,000km since then though.

I was also going to say this too. A good driver should be matching revs as close as possible on every gear change if they're paying attention/know the vehicle. Less wear on the clutch and easier on the gearbox too.

I try to do this onroad most of the time, get the right revs for the right gear. Also means the engine doesn't labour as much either

I highly doubt that this issue is with the gearbox, you're just stressing that you've spent all this money on it. I'm with Paul on the clutch issue. And it could possibly be an issue with the fork, mine started to do the same some time ago and I had a stock clutch pressure plate in there! I think lube is the key to this one.

Yeah well 3k for a gearbox is alot of money, especially in a car thats only worth 5k!
I do drive through massive amounts of dust so I might try some lube around that area and see if that makes a difference.
When I'm sitting at the lights and I put it in neutral then go to select 1st it won't go in, you have to slip it into 2nd gear then pop it into first from there..
The problem with looking at the clutch fork/master cylinder and whole clutch system is that I have no idea with what I'm looking at

And before you jump on your "subarus are crap and not a real 4wd" bandwagon, it's all about how you use or abuse your vehicle!

I'm not going to do this. They are good for what they are, and of course have limits. I know mine is very capable along with many other Soobs out there The more I drive and consider a big 4WD at the same time it wouldn't be practical for my needs. Driving as a daily in the city they are complete rubbish while my little Forester is perfect(economical, practical, comfortable, easy to park, etc...).
It is my choice on how I use and abuse my Forester, you guys can judge me how you like but it is my choice in the end. I like using it to have fun, doing slides, donuts, rallying and all the rest is part of the fun that I like to do. In saying this I do look after my new gearbox but give the engine hell.

I'm betting on (and hoping for you) it's the hydraulic clutch setup.

Yes it is

[taza]

Another question I want to ask if you're able to do this - clutchless gear changing from after 1st to 5th and downshift (used do that with my liberty a lot and i know its bad but was pretty good at) while in motion by revving the engine to certain rpm while selecting into gears without crunching - does it feel stiff in the gear selector?

Yes I can and no it does not feel stiff, I just tried this today.

But when stopped with the engine running, if I engage the clutch then try selecting any gears (1-5) it does feel really stiff, but isn't as bad when you are generally driving.

[tambox]

That comment you made about it not going into first, without going second first.
Does it go about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into first, then stops? Or does it grind?
Whan I say 1/4 -1/3, I mean travel of the lever compared to when you normally select 1st.

Ever done any long steep downhill drives, with it under load in 1st and it popped out?

Just looking at another option, if its not the clutch and the gearbox has been "rebuilt".

[taza]

That comment you made about it not going into first, without going second first.
Does it go about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into first, then stops? Or does it grind?
Whan I say 1/4 -1/3, I mean travel of the lever compared to when you normally select 1st.

Ever done any long steep downhill drives, with it under load in 1st and it popped out?

Just looking at another option, if its not the clutch and the gearbox has been "rebuilt".

Yes it does go some of the way in, but not actually in gear(the gear stick). It doesn't grind or feel clunky, just stiff.

No it doesn't pop out and never has, my old box didn't either.
Gearbox is fully reconditioned with all new syncro's and bearings. Clutch was done 60,000km ago.. with a Clutch Pro heavy duty clutch and is on a single mass flywheel.

I'm leaning towards a bent clutch fork, but I'm not sure what I would be looking for to inspect it...

[tambox]

Other cars Ive seen with the 2nd then first and grinding into reverse have had clutch problems.

Changes gears ok with the motor off? = clutch/clutch system.

Outback style clutch hose problem?

Another test, if you try to take off from the traffic lights in a hurry, you let the clutch out and the car starts to take off, with the clutch slipping, then you have to let the clutch pedal travel a lot further before the clutch grips fully.

Yes = internal clutch problem.
No = hydraulics/fork

Either of the above if it is a clutch problem.
These are not guranteed tests as they are by driver feel, which is hard to do over the net.