Diesel Particulate Filter - DPF

[Falco80]

I was pi$$ed off at first too, with the troubles my diesel forester was having early in it's life, but just do a quick google search and you'll see that many of the other late model common-rail diesel engines, with DPF's, are having issues too. Unfortunately it seems the common consensus is driving style. The DPF is the issue. These new hi-tech DPF-equipped diesels are less tolerant to lugging around and driving unloaded, as the old school diesel engines are. The new car salesman will sell this new diesel-engined car to anyone he can. He does not care that you will be using it in the city, or will only be doing short trips, he only cares about the sale! After that it's the service departments problem. It's sad but true, those new car salesman wouldn't know the difference between a spark plug and an injector. You need to do your research and decide if this engine is right for you.
The fact of the matter seems to be you need to drive these engines on-boost, above 2000rpm. The engine needs to be in that range to perform a "DPF regeneration". The gearbox is geared far too tall in my opinion, which renders 6th gear pretty much useless in Australia, if you want to obey speed limits. Sit it in 3rd or 4th for a while (20-30mins) while it is spinning at 3000rpm or above, it will do it a world of good.
You could also drive it like you stole it and give it a good regular highway run (in the lower gears 4th or 5th) to keep it clean. Remember also there are heaps of these models sold and only a handlful of people complain online, so it's not like every single diesel forester driver is having a problem we know of. Good luck with your class action.
Lug this engine at your peril!

[steptoe]

I'm surprised Subaru Australia haven't done anything about it yet other than fobbing off individual owners one by one

I hope they do something about it soon, don't want the same thing happening to anyone like it did for the innocent lady in the VW gearbox issue - her car went into limp mode/shut down on the freeway and an unfortunate truckie hit her from behind - She paid the ultimate price that shouldn't have been.

Cheers

Bennie

This tragedy you refer to is still in the hands of the coroner isn't it ?

Motor journo Will Hagon was saying the other night the problem VW are having seems to be with the Diesel engine/DSG box in the majority - and it is the gearbox, or is it a transmission? that is the component being attended to in order to correct fault whereas it is the polution control side of the Diesel engines in the Subes copping the blame and attention.

[tambox]

Sorry for going slightly off topic, but it seems like these DPF vehciles are like the early Jap 2 stroke motorbikes, from 30 years ago. Ride it quiety and it clogs up, rev it all the time and its fine.
Wonderfull how technology advances.

[El_Freddo]

This tragedy you refer to is still in the hands of the coroner isn't it ?

Possibly but the media down here have been reporting that it was the gearbox failing, limb mode activated and a huge loss of power occurred or something, I'm not following it that closely - just know that an innocent law abiding citizen died due to her new product failing - and some innocent law abiding citizen truckie has to live with the outcome of this for the rest of their life.

Motor journo Will Hagon was saying the other night the problem VW are having seems to be with the Diesel engine/DSG box in the majority - and it is the gearbox, or is it a transmission? that is the component being attended to in order to correct fault whereas it is the polution control side of the Diesel engines in the Subes copping the blame and attention.

I believe it's in the tranny - the auto diesels are the ones with the issue, but I could be wrong too. VW US have done a fix on the issue about a year or so ago - VW Australia have known about the issue but done nothing major about it from what I know.

While the Subaru issue seems to be with the DPF unit, the fact of the matter is that the engine still goes into a limp mode that drops power - could be dangerous when pushing across a busy intersection as drivers have been known to do (after all they know what they're car can do - but are then caught out when it goes into limp mode)

Cheers

Bennie

[pitrack_1]

It's been a while.

DPFs
Back from Euro trip recently, drove a couple of manual diesels whilst there: Opel Astra and VW Passat. Will perhaps post a comparison of these to Subaru Diesel in another article.

Regarding DPFs, regens, driveability, etc though I noted no driveability issues on either the Astra or Passat. Put about 1000kms on the Astra and 1500kms on the Passat.

The same debate is happening in Europe, especially UK regarding urban diesels. The recommendation there is to stick to petrols for the urban areas. The new-generation turbo petrol engines get similar power, torque and economy figures without the driveability or DPF issues of the diesels, especially around the city. Petrol is, however, much dearer in Europe than diesel.

VW Accidents
Slightly off topic, but relevant to a couple of other recent comments regarding VWs: I had the distinct impression I wasn't driving the VW, it was allowing itself to be driven. This evidenced itself in a couple of situations of either uncommanded responses or unresponded commands:
a) Headlights take ~0.5 sec to turn on after the switch. The body computer seems to be determining whether to action the command.
b) Ditto ~0.5sec delay on the the horn. Furthermore one "blip" of the horn pad will result in no noise. Two "blips" of the horn pad will result in one "blip" of the actual horn.
c) The car determines when to apply the "hill holder" type device. This can (and does) result in uncommanded application of the brakes. For example, whilst reversing out of a tight (all European parking spots are tight!) but level parking spot, whilst the car is still rolling backwards slowly you shift the gear lever from reverse to 1st, then the car will apply the brakes and halt the car. Ditto for 1st to reverse whilst rolling forwards.
d) Sometimes the "hill holder" won't let go when trying to move off, even on a level surface. You have to rev the engine and really bite the clutch, whereupon the car lets go rather suddenly with a thump and the vehicle leaps off the line.

I do wonder if any of this could, in the case of a confused computer/ corrupted signals, contribute to sudden stopping- or other uncommanded behaviour- of a car. There have been aviation accidents/incidents of this type, two that come to my mind: Lauda Air Flight NG004 and QANTAS Flight QF72.

[Subyroo]

I do wonder if any of this could, in the case of a confused computer/ corrupted signals, contribute to sudden stopping- or other uncommanded behaviour- of a car. There have been aviation accidents/incidents of this type, two that come to my mind: Lauda Air Flight NG004 and QANTAS Flight QF72.

Remember the PC terminology - GIGO?

[aware]

I'm surprised Subaru Australia haven't done anything about it yet other than fobbing off individual owners one by one

I hope they do something about it soon, don't want the same thing happening to anyone like it did for the innocent lady in the VW gearbox issue - her car went into limp mode/shut down on the freeway and an unfortunate truckie hit her from behind - She paid the ultimate price that shouldn't have been.

Cheers

Bennie

Please elaborate on the VW gearbox issue. Would this revolve around the DSG/Diesel issue that Fairfax discussed because it was apparently relevant to the Petrol/manual combination that this lady was driving. Considering it is before the coroner still (haven't heard otherwise) please share your inside information. Or have you just read what the media likes to put forward? Because we don't want to let facts get in the way of a good story.

Meanwhile, I'll go enjoy my DSG/Diesel car (2012 Skoda Superb). Along with another car I drive that has DSG, is a diesel, and has 120,000kms without any issues (Golf TDI)

[martti974]

Just got back home from Subaru dealership after my XV's yellow DPF light started blinking yesterday. My normal drive is on the highway about 60 km a day at 80-110 km/h.
I had a long lecture about these filters and how it is quite normal that it is blocked in a brand-new (8000km) car. They were of the opinion that it was up to me to pay for the repair.

I argued telling them that it is not normal for a modern car to clog up like that under normal usage and that if they do think it is normal, the least they could do was to warn their clients that get another make if you want to just get where you are going. In my opinion in the year 2013 the responsibility of the representative is to warn the client of the potentially dangerous glitches of the vehicle they are selling.

I managed to get the job done free.
As they told me I was the only one having this problem and this must mean that there is nothing wrong with the car. I said that this argument is not valid as on the Australian website there are numerous reports of similar incidences.

To which he said that one is not supposed to believe what is said on the internet!

The advise I got from an older gentleman was to avoid the 6th gear totally and let the engine run at least at 2000 RPM. Another client didd like that and he had had no problems...during his first 5000 kilometers.

What makes me wonder is that they have this computer on board that delivers unnecessary info about which way the wheels are turning etc. There is a sensor there that sends a message to the injector when the DPF is in need of elevated temperature to clean up. WTH does it not send a note to the driver as well?

Well, I promised him to give some publicity to my problem and I started on this forum.
Will visit the FB pages as well.

[NachaLuva]

G'day martti974

Welcome to AUSubaru, shame you had to join under this situation. While you're here, there's lots of helpfull info for you.

So, the DPF thread reared its ugly head again...been a while!

There seems to be a consensus to do what the older bloke said & not use 6th gear until about 140kmh. Bit b****y useless then!

Another is to forget its a diesel (usually driven at low revs with big low down torque) & give it some! Drive it like a normal engine, using the rev range

I'm glad you didnt back down...no way should you have to pay for repairs on a new car!

[martti974]

I have to say I was surprised how adamant the fellow was that the blockage was an user fault. What he failed to tell me was that several big car fleets in Europe are switching to petrol because of the DPF problems.

I live in France where it is very hard to sell a petrol car because diesel prices are kept artificially low.

I have now tried to find a good fuel additive to avoid the recurrence of the problem. There are many positive reviews of Wynn's and LiquidMoly products, among others. Anybody here with experience?

PS. Just got back from Sydney.
Gotta love the Aussie mentality!

[Gannon]

Not available for Subaru, but deleting the DPF and fooling the DPF sensor could be a solution

http://www.chiptuning.com.au/dpf-removal-service/

[steptoe]

I wonder if you can download the transcript from ABC radio for Tony Delroy's 'night life' 07 Nov 2013 where his regular guest , motoring journo Will Hagon, father (i think) of the next gen motoring journo Toby Hagon mentioned a vehicle being available in petrol or Diesel soon (Honda CRV) and made mention to the effect that diesels need to be driven a certain way to avoid issues and that some peoples driving characteristics might better suit the petrol version instead to avoid the diesels 'issues' - or to that effect

[Falco80]

Just got back home from Subaru dealership after my XV's yellow DPF light started blinking yesterday. My normal drive is on the highway about 60 km a day at 80-110 km/h.
I had a long lecture about these filters and how it is quite normal that it is blocked in a brand-new (8000km) car. They were of the opinion that it was up to me to pay for the repair.

I argued telling them that it is not normal for a modern car to clog up like that under normal usage and that if they do think it is normal, the least they could do was to warn their clients that get another make if you want to just get where you are going. In my opinion in the year 2013 the responsibility of the representative is to warn the client of the potentially dangerous glitches of the vehicle they are selling.

I managed to get the job done free.
As they told me I was the only one having this problem and this must mean that there is nothing wrong with the car. I said that this argument is not valid as on the Australian website there are numerous reports of similar incidences.

To which he said that one is not supposed to believe what is said on the internet!

The advise I got from an older gentleman was to avoid the 6th gear totally and let the engine run at least at 2000 RPM. Another client didd like that and he had had no problems...during his first 5000 kilometers.

What makes me wonder is that they have this computer on board that delivers unnecessary info about which way the wheels are turning etc. There is a sensor there that sends a message to the injector when the DPF is in need of elevated temperature to clean up. WTH does it not send a note to the driver as well?

Well, I promised him to give some publicity to my problem and I started on this forum.
Will visit the FB pages as well.

Welcome martti, i had DPF issues also when my forester was at about 9000km's,which actually put the car into "limp home" mode. I was told it was an oil-dilution issue. Have any of your service guys mentioned that? Was your oil level high at all?

I agree totally that the sales people should be telling prospective buyers about the driving style and conditions needed when owning one of these cars. When i bought mine the salesman did not mention anything about the DPF or the need to keep the revs up and not lug it around. I don't think he even knew the difference between petrol and diesel to tell you the truth.

I was in France during September and i gotta say with the excellent highways you have over there and the 130kph "limit", i would be using 6th gear all the time! I loved driving over there, makes our roads, road rules & speed limits here in Australia look pathetic.

My forester is now at 103000k's and running great. I'm no longer doing the big kilometres i was, due to a new job, and only probably drive 150k's a week. That's a lot less than the 1000k's a week i used to do! I haven't used 5th or 6th gear in weeks. I do avoid the 5-minute drives to the shops though.
When I do drive it, I drive it hard, keep the revs up and the engine loves it.

[kudu2013]

This is my first post on this forum and it is interesting to see people having the same issues with the DPF. I have owned the diesel Forester for almost two years and in that time have had the DPF light come on many times and on three occasions go into "limp" mode which it is currently in pending a dealer reset and burn. I find this very frustrating and costly as I have followed the handbook instructions each time it rears its ugly glow. I have just completed a 5K road trip and after three short trips, the light came on. A quick reset via the manual reset guide followed by a 20 Km drive at 3200RPM failed to stop it going into limp mode.

The previous reference to bypassing the DPF is probably the only way to resolve the issue but whilst Subaru is refusing to release the software programme to other mechanical services (eg:chiptuning), then we are stuck with our problem. Modern diesels are just not suited for suburban driving so it will probably mean going back to petrol.: cry:

[NachaLuva]

Sorry to hear of your continuing probs Kudo...must be soooo frustrating! Good luck mate

[Neeek]

I thought I'd add to this thread and not the other one (showthread.php?t=18766), both of which have made for very interesting reading for me over the last few weeks.

My wife and I bought a secondhand 2010 Outback TD Premium in September this year from a big local dealer (not a Subaru one, though) to replace our much-loved-but-getting-on-a-bit 05 Forester XS. Very pleased with the car overall apart from one thing. Yep, you guessed it! The shudder.

Nice to see that we're not alone, and thank God we purchased it from a dealer and not privately as we have the standard 3-month stat warranty. FYI, the car's got 58,000km on the clock and it's got full history with a Subaru dealer.

Anyway, our problem is as many others have reported - massive vibrations through the car when tooling up the freeway on a light throttle. Doesn't matter what gear it's in (4th/5th/6th), but from 80 to 110 km/h it's unbearable. Happens just about every time now. Don't even need an incline - our car will do it on the flat or downhill. Cruise control makes it worse. What is interesting is that when you take your foot off, the vibration disappears instantly. Same deal if you bury the pedal. But hold it on a light throttle, and it rattles your fillings out. It's even also done it a couple of times around town at much lower speeds.

We took it to a local Subaru specialist (SubiEvolution in Brendale in case you're wondering) and had it checked out by them. Whilst he did find an oil leak from the rear main seal, he was flummoxed by the vibration. So I had the car booked in at the dealer we bought it from yesterday and they went through it after their sight-unseen diagnosis of unbalanced tyres - er no, boys. You're wrong. Some debate ensued, I took it out for a drive with them (they drove it back) and fortunately the bloke who came with me agreed - it ain't tyres.

They didn't find anything, which wasn't a great surprise. But they have agreed to take it to a Subaru dealer for a full diagnosis, without my having to ask for it. They want the car for a whole week, which I'm disappointed with, but I've also given them written instructions that I do not want the car returned to us until the problem has been diagnosed and fixed. As I said earlier, thank God for the stat warranty.

No-one in this thread or the other one seems to have had a successful diagnosis, so I'll report back here when I've got any news - good, bad or indifferent. Had the car been bought new and done this, I'd be standing at the dealer with my lawyer demanding a refund or replacement! As it happens, I'm an awkward bugger so I may end up having to do just that if it cannot be fixed. But let's hope not.

Thanks again to everyone who posted about their problems.

EDIT - forgot to mention that the DPF regen light has not yet come on.

[El_Freddo]

Welcome to the forum Neeek,

We all hope you get this sorted. Seems like you're kind of in a better position than others here. A dealership pushing a subaru service department sounds like a bit of fun - better than you "the common non trained mechanic whom knows nothing about cars" having to push the subaru service crew.

I've read about DPF deletes in other models and people being very happy with the results, but I think that's the same as deleting CAT converters in the fine department...

Finger's crossed they find something and sort it out!

Just out of interest, how "getting on a bit" was your XS? My personaly preference is to stick to the older subaru models, a "little bit" older than the XS. It's like that Regurgitator tune - "I like your old stuff better than your new stuff"

500k km here I come!

All the best,

Bennie

[Gannon]

Maybe rather than looking at changing the software, can we fool the computer into thinking the DPF is functioning correctly, even with it removed? Find out what the DFP sensor reads when the DPF is clean and duplicate it, feed the dummy signal into the ECU and theoretically it shouldnt have issues.

[Neeek]

Thanks for the welcome. The Forester was great, an 05 XS manual. Only trouble with it was that the wife wanted a newer car, really. Can't argue with that.

I've also heard of many happy campers going down the DPF delete route. Honestly I couldn't give a damn about not passing emissions test and wot not... but it seems that such a kit doesn't exist for us at the moment.

If our car isn't sorted, then I'll investigate the the DPF delete option further. Can't be that hard...

[NachaLuva]

G'day Neeek

Hope you have good news with the dealership. Very good idea to put your demands in writing! Good luck