EA82T intermittent miss #2, common ?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:51 pm

keen to drive this baby real soon as it all seems to be coming to completion.

BIG BUT.

I have this miss that has developed over the last month of start, stop, rev, start, stop etc.

Pull the leads one by one to find it is #2

swapped in another HT lead - fixed, or so it sounded.
it's back. I buy a set of sexy gold print on black leads from eagle, a new dizzy cap and rotor - still there. Swap new plugs cylinder to cylinder - still #2

soaked a spare injector overnight in injector cleaner tank additive. Old injector looks cracked. I fit. I fix. Yahoo. Next morning on start the miss is back same #2. Getting good at swapping injectors, I fitted another, also inspecting the rubberish seal between manifold and injector. It's good.

It sort of sounds like it is back again from time to time. Looking for a vacuum port specific to #2 but it is good, it goes to dizzy. When i mistakenly left it off - first time i see ecs light on dash ten seconds after start. I go round to connect it, come back and light is extinguished.

130 psi all round, new head gasket and rebuilt , tested heads. Tomorrow morning i will pull #2 plug first to see if it is wet with water causing a miss/stumble. Sort of sounds air leak. Wondering if it could be anything else ? like throttle body gaskets ?

ideas, experience ?

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:39 pm

intake manifold gasket when its there spray some flammable stuff roudn there cant remember wt we use at work but try it if it goes the theres an air leak that may well eb the intake manifold gasket

other than that maybe the injector seals

easiest way to fix (also most expensive) buy new plugs and injectors and seal s and gaskets and jsut fit them all
but that isnt the thing id wanna do either

not a bocked fuel filter or even air filter

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:40 pm

Matt that sounds like it might be good advice but jono may appreciate it in english =)

Jono are all your vacuum lines in good nick? I'd check for vacuum leaks. Also is the fuel in the car fresh?

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:45 pm

lol i understand all of it
which parts confusing maybe the top bit

meaning that if the intake manifold gaskets are leaking they will suck in extra air leaning out the mixture and make it misfire
so when it is misfiring u spray some stuff round it (something liek carby cleaner) and if it is sucking air in where it is sprayed then it will suck the flammable substance in which will make it fire on that cylinder telling you that the manifold gasket will be the problem.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:52 am

yeah guys, thanks, I understand English, Hurry (maybe same as Rushin') and some German. Also know if you post long it don't all get read. Just rebuilt engine, used blue max silistuff on inlet man gaskets (forgot to tell you), but did say new plugs, leads, cap and rotor= the expensive way, checked and swapped injector and seal. This miss is confined to cylinder #2 so eliminates air filter (new) and fuel filter ( still) and fuel (being a mix of old smelly, new smelly, metho to soak up any moisture in tank and fuel cleaner)

DA- DING 2am THOUGHT.
I forgot to tell that while engine was sitting outside after installation it had no oil in crankcase. I forgot to tell that i noticed yesterday moisture build up in PCV hoses and underside of oil cap. Stop start stop start. I thinking condensation that has not had a chance to boil off due to no distance covered-pooling in PCV hoses, where is the pcv valve ? pointing towards number two runner ! so it may need a chance to evap off and steam out the oil cap or pcv system. it does not smell of coolant so hope eliminates engine water leaking into oil system !!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:38 pm

How well did you lap your valves in? hmmm, that said i remember you saying 130psi in all pots.

The PCV is at the rear of the intake manifold, on the passenger's side - there will be some hoses headed down that way to it... But i don't think this is the problem.

Thought about your wiring harness? Is the injector when connected (but not in engine) squirting at all? Could be a dodgy connection or a cut in the line somewhere... have fun with that (i mean that politely).

I really can't come up with anything else as everything you've said should have covered it so far...

Good luck with it.

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:31 am

LATEST

is...

cranked her over, starts nicely, pulled #2 lead off then stumble, so plug back on back to nice - so all hunky dory UNTIL a just touch the loud pedal a little bit and this 'miss' is back!

so thinkin' it is something that activates on light throttle and sticks on giving vacuum leak to #2's runner possibly the vacuum to EGR valve, dizzy vacuum then there is the idle bypass vacuum switchy thing.

Time to try rubber plugs on all manifold vacuum hoses to other bits and try again.

Waiting for Disco to give the answer as he seems to have his head around the workings of these beasts.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:31 am

think i should connect the green jumpers and run engine and see if ecu is clever enuff to detect problem. it does have codes for sticked on, sticked off injectors and egr etc. If it does, i WILL be impressed

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:53 pm

well, I have done just that. Not being sure when to connect jumper - engine running or before start up. Connected while running and got a number of codes, then stopped it and restarted - got one code, 3-5, EGR solenoid valve sticking, grounded or open circuit. Was suspecting it could be, and ecu diagnostics may confirm it. Just need to fiddle around to see what is going on vacuum wise around this little baby.

One thing though is the miss on #2 comes good after a minute or two now. So need to inspect clean or swap the switch and slash or EGR valve itself. Thinking just plug her up somewhere inconspicuous.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:18 pm

i dont get why it wuld be confined to #2
i cant think of ne special reason apart fromt he stuff already covered (plug, injector, lead, injector seals etc all that crap)

did u get the head all checked over etc when u did gaskets and that?
there isnt any signs of high coolant pressure no water in oil stuff like that
maybe u shuld run a bottle of seal up through the coolant and see wt happens u just dont want it to be a dodgy head gasket or somethign even stupider like a valve not seating right at certain times changing when the motor gets hot (as vavle seat angles slightly change with the temp etc, and this wuld not be altered by seal up or nething like that)

cant think of nethign else that wuld be unfortunant to happen atm

but i hope it isnt nething im thinkin of (be rare if it was)

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:47 pm

I wouldn't be plugging up the EGR system, you will experience higher temps if you do this... the system is designed to drop the explosion temp and reduce some emmissions...

Cheers

Bennie

SCOOBIDOO · Post by **SCOOBIDOO** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:48 pm

jono wrote:keen to drive this baby real soon as it all seems to be coming to completion.

BIG BUT.

I have this miss that has developed over the last month of start, stop, rev, start, stop etc.

Pull the leads one by one to find it is #2

swapped in another HT lead - fixed, or so it sounded.
it's back. I buy a set of sexy gold print on black leads from eagle, a new dizzy cap and rotor - still there. Swap new plugs cylinder to cylinder - still #2

soaked a spare injector overnight in injector cleaner tank additive. Old injector looks cracked. I fit. I fix. Yahoo. Next morning on start the miss is back same #2. Getting good at swapping injectors, I fitted another, also inspecting the rubberish seal between manifold and injector. It's good.

It sort of sounds like it is back again from time to time. Looking for a vacuum port specific to #2 but it is good, it goes to dizzy. When i mistakenly left it off - first time i see ecs light on dash ten seconds after start. I go round to connect it, come back and light is extinguished.

130 psi all round, new head gasket and rebuilt , tested heads. Tomorrow morning i will pull #2 plug first to see if it is wet with water causing a miss/stumble. Sort of sounds air leak. Wondering if it could be anything else ? like throttle body gaskets ?

ideas, experience ?

did you check your valve springs for correct tension?
This symptom is of a weak valve spring and allows the lifter to partially pump up with higher oil preassure,s above idle ....over and above what the spring can deal with.... when the engine settle,s back to idle,after a few seconds it goes away..due to the lower oil pressure..which in turn allows the weak valve spring to overcome the excess lift of the lifter...and allows the valve to fully seal...this is when the miss goes away..... touch the throttle and its there agian....this is a constant cycle which is caused by a weak spring...usually the cylinder beside the turbo...or n#2 if the head is swapped to the opposite side..
you may ask why is it not there at all rpm above idle then?this is because the volumetric efficiency of the engine overcome,s the leak of the valve not seating..maybe 20-40 thou at most...like the start of a burnt valve it is usually apparent at idle and goes away when under throttle...and when the oil pressure drops to its lowest possible at idle...it is gone again. and a compression test will always shown full compression with this problem...due to no oil pressure at cranking speed. If your still scratching your head with all else.....then this is what you need to consider...p.s it is possible to r & r the spring with only the removal of the rocker cover.and 2 specialty tools....but the engine needs to be removed...else do it the conventional way.which requires around the same time ..timing covers..cam box..cam....put a rag in the cylinder and put the piston against the valve..that way you dont have to remove the head..or pump with compressed air.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:05 am

a few things to consider, thanks.

Matatak, I was reading the useful side of egr and you may be right. In searchng for this miss I have made a blocking plate for under the valve and sealed with sili stic - in case there has been a leak in this precise location and if it feeds to #2 somehow.If i was to simply deactivate egr in future id just block of the vacuum unit. It is a trick to get ' an extra 10kW out of these EA82T's by doing so' I am told.

Scoobi, don't scare me. The heads were done by allheadservices in melbourne, so i bloody hope not, but you have interesting and valid theory there. I am thinking just a blip on throttle does not budge oil presssure, but symptom is improving

Yet to try the sealed egr. The ecu diagnostics code 35. I AM IMPRESSED. The egr control solenoid with vacuum and electrical controls was indeed roo- ted! This little baby switches vacuum through when power is supplied to its wire for trivia. Found the switch to be stuck shut so egr was not operational.
But it did not fix my #2 problem.

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:56 pm

I'd be interested to hear what ALL the spark plugs look like after a bit of light highway cruising . I guess other things to look at could be bubbles in the top tank of the radiator when at running temperature , this and a little reluctance to start cold could mean a leaking head gasket . You could also pour a bit of water around where the inlet manifold bolts to the head because if its not air tight it'll suck it in . I'm not sure about Subie ECU's but can you do a total power down reset ? ie disconnect the battery pump the brake pedal a few times have a cuppa reconnect and start ? I'd check the ECU/loom plugs as well because if they're loose ...
If you had a spare dizzy I suppose you could try that to see if its electronic internals were playing up .

Are you in Sydney by any chance ? Cheers A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:14 pm

Answer backwards. Not in Sydney, outside Canberra. Its not dizzy as sparks getting through.Cleaned up all connectors with lanotec. Yeah, it is a simple reset of diagnostics each time the green connectors are jumpered. Definitely not fuel either.Starts first crank when cold (until I convert to LPG)

Since plating up the EGR from underneath to prevent any leak across from exhaust to inlet let blue silicone set - it's been fine this arvo. Been up and down the road. Now for tranny leak and maybe rego, but having driven it through only three gears all I am thinking is rip it out and chuck in the intended manual d/r 3.9 ratio. Hey , the turbo FEEELS GOOOD !!

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:17 pm

good stuff
glad to hear its all working good now
wts easier to rego it with an auto or manual?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:10 am

Got me curious now , how did you "plate" it from underneath ? I dug out my manual to see how Sube fits the EGR valve and for those who don't know the riser pipe from the exhaust goes into the back of the inlet manifold not the valve body itself .

Cheers A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:23 pm

yup, made a plate the same shape as the gasket between inlet manifold and egr valve. Made a hole for each stud and where the valve dips below the body line so exhaust can enter the inlet manifolds chamber but goes nowhere as there is a blank where there should be a hole to allow gasses to go along their own port at the rear where it enters the plenum at the end of a 10mm sewer pipe - right in the centre of the plenum, but looked like it could feed to just one cylinder -#2.

But, SCREW, SHOOT, BUGGER, POO - it ain't fixed

Got same symptoms this morning along with a cough that set off turbo light at light revs/speed before it should be spoling up turbo

Bloody sticky valve in number 2 is sounding like what it could eventually be. Wondering if ..nah, even if the fuel pump was ratshoot it wouldn't single out #2 on inlet burp would it ??

the whole rego process would be plain sailing for it to go through as it was born - auto

a ? to ask RTA soon as it goes without hiccoughs

Getting the sh1ts

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:27 am

Jono , found this on the USMB boad (Older Subaru's) . Its about a feller that bought an XT that was only running on the rear two pots . It had injector wiring probs due to some kind of breakdown in the wiring . Possibly not your issue but an interesting read .

http:http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/sho ... hp?t=78017

Hope the link works , cheers A .

PS If not search 89 XT 4wd ... Its here ... Fixed on page 3 ...

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:03 am

Thanks Adrian, good read and reminds me what I should be doing - using the ecu to do its test- afterall it pinpointed the seized up egr solenoid

and SCOOBIDOO may have it - cannot see why the turbo light and manifold pressure would rise at preboost levels other than an inlet valve sticking open letting pressure into manifold.