EA82T intermittent miss #2, common ?

discopotato03 · Post by **discopotato03** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:34 pm

Leak down test then ? I guess if you can pressurise the cylinder via the spark plug hole and check for air escaping out the throttlebody that would tell for sure .
If you were pretty certain you would probably be able to see it down the inlet port with the manifold removed .

Cheers A .

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:50 am

manifold removed !?!? AAArrrgh !!!!!

yes , been thinking i need to get it to "miss" , rip out me mates cylinder leakage tester and or comp gauge and look at that. Determined for this not to beat me (and the rest of youse)

thinking retard timing a bit, pipe clean the fuel rail, fuel pressure test, fuel pump change, fuel reg test/change - all at the same time so if we fix it we don't know what it was

, NOT

noticed the fuel pump is just a bit noisier than before

waiting on subi wan kenobi to check in to find out the source brand make of his $60 fuel pump

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:00 pm

fuel pump needed external power hooked up and a tap to get it rattling today.

I tested pressure between fuel filter and fuel rail with a T piece tapped in here and a gauge that reads to 300 psi ( a bit over the top, a more responsive one to 50 psi would be preferred). I should note it is NOT the manuals suggested point to test the regulator as such but... I got a reading of 35psi at idle and all the way through, rev up it'd go up a bit. Disconnect vacuum to regulator and it would sit on 45psi. I think i need to T into the rail itself to get true working pressure.

I disconnected power to fuel pump, started it and watched it idle OK even at about 10 - 15 psi as the pressure ran down.

Also need to remember to use ECU to 'diagnose' itself if possible

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:04 pm

Leak down test and/or comp test is only possible to undertake at shut down after i have got the intermittent symptoms.

wondering if it is silly thing like throttle body to manifold gasket leaking just above #2 runner.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:07 pm

jono wrote:wondering if it is silly thing like throttle body to manifold gasket leaking just above #2 runner.

if it is then spraying something flammable there shuld make it run properly again
CRC or the likes i think

and did u find out the details about SWK's pump?

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:05 am

SWK still away 'til next Monday. Tricky getting the flammable stuff in around the gasket.

I swapped injector wires between #2 and #4 given that they spray at the same time, to see if the problem started in #4 all of a sudden, but no - still confined to #2 , so that rules out ECU or injector wiring issue

gonna use a spare driveplate to establish exact mark for #2 TDC (if not already on it) in prep for leak down test. EDIT < it is TDC mark for #1 and #2 >>

This is gonna get down to a replace trottle body gasket and plug up every freakin' possible vac hose/hole in the manifld and pcv so it is just a throttle body to isolate this problem.

If it is a sticky valve (i doubt it ) I will spew.

Even planning a dizzy swap incase just to test. Thinking an EA81 dizzy will fit just to provide spark !!

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:09 am

wt a PIA this is for u

i no how id feel if i had a possibility i had to remove a engine again id be spewing to

how do u swap injector wires like that aswell wont it not fire properly as the timing will be way out on em both

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:42 am

damn all this technical jargon is looking mighty confusing to me- cant imagine the crap you're going through to check and test all these therories.

maybe get someone else around for a fresh look.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:00 am

POST TIME 10:00am Fri 31AUG07 AEST (that foreign clock starting to annoy me)

Funnily enough, I have never owned my own efi car, nor turbo and thought it would be interesting to play around with given there is more to go wrong than a car on lpg or carby & no ecu as all of mine have been in the past. bloody got what I wanted didn't I ? I have FSM to help.

Only recently learnt when converting efi to lpg that say on a V8 that all injectors on each bank open at the same time unless they are sequential injection, ( new lpg vapour injection may be sequential, can't remember) thought the same might be for 1 & 3, 2 & 4 on a boxer would be much the same and it appears to be !! Just think of single point injection - the squirter just sits there and spits - a carby is continually atomising and std multi point is just spitting a little bit closer to the fire !!

Gonna try swapping injectors from cylinder to cylinder to see if i have been swapping in crapped out injectors each time !!

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:55 pm

Hey jono,

I feel your pain... took me 4 months of piss farting around to realise that i had a camshaft 180 degrees out of sinc, we "read the pictures" instead of the text (haynes manual usually tells you to follow the sequence in the pictures, check out the brake pad removal and install)...

I take it you didn't put the EA81 dissy on? It wouldn't work anyway as this wouldn't give your ECU a reference point - where the crank shaft is at any given moment...

And i'm sure that all the injectors wouldn't be squirting at the same time - this would add to your use of fuel -> unless i've read this wrong i'm sure every system would have to be sequential - unless sequential means two injectors per cylinder, one close for low revs and one further away for higher revs (got something to do with fuel and air mixing before getting into the cylinder)... I don't understand how swapping the injector leads over would still allow that bank of cylinders to provide power to the engine - no 2 fires just before no 4 so swapping them would give a guareenteed miss on no 2 in my mind...

I really hope you get this sorted and that it is something that is not so obvious that you'd be spitting chips when its working properly (cos it was such a simple thing...)

Good luck, mate

Bennie

Gannon · Post by **Gannon** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:33 pm

Nah l series injectors are batch fire, they all squirt at the same time.
EJ20's got sequential fire, where one injector fires after another, makes idle a little smoother, but makes bugger all difference at higher revs.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:45 pm

Well, bugger me then... where'd you find out about this piece of info?

Bennie

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:13 pm

think it is not common knowledge unless you are an auto elec. Two mates, both mechanics did the LPG course in the last few years, only one learnt this as he was converting his V8 efi and looking at the wiring diagram does not have individual wiring from ecu to injectors - just two - one to each bank. I just assumed a 20 year old efi system would be much the same and luckily boxer engines have a left and right bank

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:18 pm

and the latest....I have plumbed the fuel pressure gauge into the rail between the regulator and the rail to measure the pressure the injectors are getting. Results are reading the same as with gauge fitted between filter and rail. It all reads fine.

Next trick will be to swap known injectors between 2 and 4.

I hate the smell of petrol !!

Does not enjoy gentle repeated blat,blat,blat,blat on the accelerator

This miss will correct itself at idle but slowly as if something is resealing, resetting with some sort of governed delay ??

Even though I am getting the correct pressure the fuel pump is cactus...I need to hook up my little 7.0Ah 12 volt to the pump and belt it with a hammer to get it ticking over more often now

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:34 pm

4am thoughts are that it could well be what SCOOBIDOO reckons or along those lines. Thinking maybe one hydraulic lifter has problems and holding valve open a poofteenth. So, thinking along these lines I am gonna try some of Nulons 'trade use only' version of lifter free and see if that does any cleansing.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:07 pm

that'd be right, I slosh the WLF code lifter free in engine oil at a 25% stronger mix than recomended on the bottle (treats 5 litres oil, sump holds 4 - I used the lot!). I have run the engine at idle, and free revved it for 10 -15 mins prior to me mechanic mate to arrive. Do you reckon it would stumble and miss on #2 ?

It does still have a stumble on its return to idle and he is stumped!!

Reckon it is time to get all injectors out and graduated to see what they deliver, get 'em ultrasonic sonic cleaned by another mate who has made up his own injector bath and cycles through a frequency or two while the cleaner fluid runs through then rechecked.

This tin of stuff also claims can free up sticky valves !!

SCOOBIDOO · Post by **SCOOBIDOO** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:09 pm

Suparoo wrote:Nah l series injectors are batch fire, they all squirt at the same time.
EJ20's got sequential fire, where one injector fires after another, makes idle a little smoother, but makes bugger all difference at higher revs.

Actually,batch fire is the best
On a 4 cycle engine 1 cycle is the induction stroke...with seqential fuel injection... its has but 1 oportunity to deliver the prescribed amount of fuel..and only 1 small window of time to do this on the intake stroke.

As oppossed to the batch fire, which delivers 2 pulse,s of fuel in the 4 stroke cycle but only half as much each tiime,delivering fuel over a 50% longer window of time and at a more consistant rate overall,this allows more increased, even saturation of overall air fuel charge to enter at each intake stroke,also offering double the cooling effect which liquid fuel provides in the overall design of a combustion engine, due to fuel being injected at 2 points over the 4 cycle,s..instead of sequentials 1 point.......with all this happening at 2000-7000 rpm....any increased time for fuel to enter the combustion chamber is of great benefit.

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:36 pm

SCOOBI - spell check is spelt (spelled?) opposed. your keyboard is as whacked as mine. We need a few extra keys for double e, double s, double p (as in opportunity)

interesting info you got there

steptoe · Post by **steptoe** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:49 pm

discovered today that it is me cracking the plastic pintle covers by smacking them against the head as i push them off the fuel rail

, but that shouldn't affect its performance. Started nicely no touch of accy pedal until warm and then only a flutter on return to idle. Swapped injectors around that much i lost track and to the point that it is not #2 with the miss. YAHOO. we getting somewhere ??? All injectors now out, labelled and waiting for a mate to pick them up in the morning, then at HIS leisure test them, clean them , test them and shove new plastic pintle covers and seal and little tiny filters.

fingers crossed xx

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:03 pm

so hope this works for ya
its gettin up to a month with this problem u must be seriously annoyed

dunno wt these plastic pintle things are u mention either

good luck with the injectors