Fitting an EJ22 into an L series costs and drama's

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:53 am

Hey there fellas just joined tonight, introduced myself int he new members section and now im onto the questions straight up.

I am looking at getting a 90ish L series and from what i have read most of you seem to thing the EA82 carby is a pretty sluggish beast... Is it really that slow??

If yes which i think it is would be by the sounds of it would a EJ22 be the best, simplest and most cost effective install??

What is the going rate of an EJ22 engine and harness etc.. Would i be best buying a front cut..

As i can do basic mechanical things myself does anyone in Perth know anyone that would be able to help with the wiring..

And last but not least anyone in Perth with a L series upgraded or not be willing to take me for a quick drive in one to give me an idea on how they drive..

Thanks heaps guys

Oh and does anyone in aus even bother with taking it over the pits??? Do you guys ever get pulled over with a mild mannered looking l series??...

Marc

brumbyrunner · Post by **brumbyrunner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:12 am

Before you get carried away, add up what it's all going to cost. Car, engine, adapter or modified tailshaft & crossmember, time, mechanincs, auto-elects etc. Then have a look at early Libertys.

Outback bloke · Post by **Outback bloke** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:22 am

I moved your post over to here so it stands out a bit more to the WA crew. There is quite a few modded Subes running around that area, surely one or more of them will show you around their car.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:31 am

Hi,

Yes it's true that a Gen1 lib (with an EJ22 in it as standard) will cost similar or even less sometimes than buying an L series and modifying it to EJ22, but then it's not a cool converted L series and where's the fun!

EJ22 does seem to be the best all-round conversion for L series, still! It's been tried and tested many many times. It turns the L series into a usable car and yes, the EA82 is that slow. Coming up to a stock L series and a Transperth bus in the left and right lanes waiting at the lights, I will pull up behind the bus.

Talk to Subarino on the forums (the guy with the Hatch) about the electrical side of things. He may be interested in modifying the loom for you for a reasonable price. He's done heaps of them now and they always start the engine first go.

You may wish to talk to SubaFury Matt too, maybe even pay him a visit, he has an EJ22 conversion on his car in progress right now.

If you're looking at buying a stock L series to begin with you'd want to factor in buying new struts and springs all round, they will almost certainly be shagged out. Also get a set of 14" wheels, they just look silly with the stock 13's. Do you plan to build it into an offroader? You will need to contact BYB for a lift kit too.

Note that you will not be required to modify any crossmembers or the tailshaft if you keep using the standard part-time 4x4 L series gearbox. Most people who do EJ22 conversions use this method. The EJ22 is no race engine, you don't really "need" to upgrade to a later model AWD gearbox for driving on the road. Beware however that you will smoke the front tyres if you try to accelerate really fast from the line but this is very manageable, you get used to it. You will however have to make up an adaptor plate to fit it, but this is pretty easy - check Subafury's recent writeup for pics, I think I have some in my WackyBug thread too. If you really do want to fit an AWD gearbox you'd probably want to fit the Gen1 Liberty 5spd which still has low range (not very low though) but yeah, you have to shorten the tailshaft and do some gearbox crossmember mods, also shorten the shifter linkages.

Try to get an MPFI (multipoint fuel injected) model. These have a "proper" fuel system which is absolutely fine for running an EJ22 without any modification at all. The Carby fuel system requires the fuel pump changing, and to be done to best practice really requires a large fuel return line and surge tank installed, but you can get away without doing this. The MPFI models are also usually the Touring Wagons which have all the other nice features like the raised roof (might make the difference between fitting that bar fridge you want to move in the back or not for example), electric windows, nicer seats etc - although you can fit WRX seats in relatively easily!

I know heaps and heaps of EJ converted L series wagons and sedans running around Perth and I can count on one hand the number of people who have taken them over the pits after the conversion. Most people don't bother, you are unlikely to be pulled over if you are well behaved. Even if you do, if the car is in good condition passing the pits is not a drama. I recently passed my home conversion over the pits (EJ20Turbo into 1986 L series sedan) and passed first go. Up to you of course but I wouldn't bother, nobody else does.

I'm sure someone here will take you for a drive in their EJ22 modified L series, just gotta find someone who hasn't broken theirs right now!

I'm sure you will have noticed BrennyV has a motor loom and ecu for sale, his price is about the going rate, don't get sucked in to paying more than this (unless it has mega low kms) just hold out until you find one. You can gamble and buy a smashed car from Pickles Auctions, they have Gen1 libs there very often - I got one for $400 with a perfect EJ22 in it and used it for WackyBug. Matt however was unlucky and bought one for abit more than that and the engine turned out to be buggered, it's a gamble. You don't really have to get a frontcut, the engine, loom and ECU is enough as long as you get all the associated parts (complete engine with alternator, power steering pump etc, air flow meter with intake piping, engine mounts - make sure it's all there).

ZefleR · Post by **ZefleR** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:44 am

Hi Shark ,

Im just down the road in Mandurah. I have a 91 L series with a ea82 carb. 14"'s and it has a slight suspension lift. I'm on the hunt for a lift kit at the moment but even so it still goes fantastic offroad with the ea82 and its current height. Through sand im generally in second gear low range and it chugs along nicely. Got a good spot toward pinjarra we go to.

I havent been offroading it long but i have already learnt a fair bit. (don't drive of drop offs on an angle... you'll "see saw" and get no where.. haha Would be nice to have LSD front and rear.

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:29 am

Was not expecting such great replies so a big thanks straight up to Andy for such an informative reply..

Yeah im getting the basic feel for it all now. Have an idea where i will be headed and will need to be done. I have a few costs in my head and please let me know if im way off on any of these. From looking in quokka today im pretty confident i can get a late 80's early 90's L series for around 1k to 2k..
Im not very confident on getting a fuel injected version so im gonna bank on the vehicle being carbied....

If what you were saying is correct i should be able to a fairly decent ej22 for up to 1k...

Now i was reading another thread and i saw they were making the adaptor plate with some ally plate. Im not afraid to do this but can you buy an adaptor kit out there and what are they worth??

So lets say the adaptor kit is $500, just a rough guess

As i know a bit about wiring but not enough to tackle this job would anyone here be able to recommend a auto sparky to complete the job?? Or would anyone be able to help for some cash??

Sundries say $500... too little???

So depending on what the sparky work is gonna cost im gonna be up or around 4k plus... Does this sound about right??

Also int he quokka for the last few weeks there have been a couple of wagons with turbo engines for sale with work needing to be done, like major work..

Would it be worth keeping an eye out for this kind stuff or are you better off building something yourself and knowing its right?? I mean i would really love a turbo but i can imagine losing my licence real quick. One guy i rang today with a turbo 1.8 said it kept up with a WRX?? Is that possible?? I didnt think the EA82t was that fast..

Also really stupid question how does the 4wd work in a l series.. Is it like a normal 4wd???

Anyway thats enough for now, i know us new blokes can be a pain in the arse with all these questions so i apologise in advance....

GOD · Post by **GOD** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:13 am

Gday Marc. I'm relatively new too, and have lots of questions of my own, but I'll have a go at answering some of yours.

If you're planning to do an EJ conversion straight away, you may as well look for a cheap L with high km. Mine was $250 unregistered with a decent body but tired carby engine. You can then get a wrecked car at auction for as little as about $400 (early Lib with EJ22), or up to $1500 for a later Impreza or Forester with an EJ20. The other option is to keep an eye out for someone selling an engine, loom and ECU (and whatever other parts like exhaust and radiator) - that's how I got my EJ18.

You can buy an adaptor plate from the Backyard Boys here, or make your own out of aluminium plate as Subafury has. You'll also need to modify your flywheel to suit the bolt pattern in the EJ crank (assuming you keep your original gearbox). Some people file out the bolt holes; I took mine to a mate's workshop and did it on a mill.

And as Andrew said, you'll need to bring your car's fuel system up to efi spec, which is what I've been working on all day. Personally, I wouldn't pay extra for a MPFI L just so I can rip that engine out - upgrading a carbied car isn't a big deal. The carbied cars need an external high pressure fuel pump added - I've got one from a VN V8 Commonwhore, as it was the cheapest external EFI pump i could find. Also, any rubber hoses between the new pump and the engine must be replaced with EFI-rated hose.

New front struts will be around $250, dunno about rears. It's probably a good idea to also budget for a new $300 heater core. Your $500 sundries budget should be ample provided the car you get doesn't require too much other work at the same time (like CVs, rust repairs ).

All up, I'm aiming to have my L on the road with a legal EJ18 for $2500.

Have a look at doing the wiring yourself. If you have to take the harness to a sparky, it could get very expensive. Going through it slowly and methodically it's actually pretty straightforward.

L series are part time 4wd - front wheel drive until you move a lever to engage the rear as well, and move the lever again to put in low range. One key difference between early subies and other 4wds is that they don't have a centre diff, so if you have it in 4wd on a sealed surface, things will break.

AndrewT · Post by **AndrewT** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:57 am

The MPFI models shouldnt really cost that much more. There are several other things that should be done to the carby system to properly bring it up to speed.
The fuel lines are physically smaller in diameter, they should really be swapped out for the EFI ones. The fuel tank itself is quite different, the EFI tank has inbuilt baffles to prevent surging, if you don't change for an EFI tank you can use an external surge tank instead.
Those things don't really "have" to be done, but it's not as good as the stock MPFI fuel system if you don't.

EA82t keeping up with a WRX? B/S. Unless it's majorly modified off it's tits (and therefore unreliable and with a very short life expectancy) it's just not possible.

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:11 am

AndrewT wrote: EA82t keeping up with a WRX? B/S. Unless it's majorly modified off it's tits (and therefore unreliable and with a very short life expectancy) it's just not possible.

they are as quick as an ej22 L series tho. i can vouch for that.

wow heaps to read there but very good information. but first things first. have a drive of any L series. then work out whether its going to be road or offroad orientated. as for the motor you may not need to drop an EJ in straight away. I have a mate who just got his licence and first L and with a 2.5" exhaust only and is very happy with its performance on road and off. Is this your first car?
if you do choose the EJ22 path as you've seen there is lots of help available.

As for the cost, ill give you a proper tally soon when i finish mine but budget for $2700 max.

YouTube · Post by **El_Freddo** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:39 pm

Subafury wrote:As for the cost, ill give you a proper tally soon when i finish mine but budget for $2700 max.

About the cost of a return trip to Perth

Another thing that others haven't touched on is that Non Injected EJ engines are hard to come by. That said the Injected engines have so many advantages over a carbie job that its better and easier to get an injected EJ IMHO.

The EA82 is pretty capable off-road as it is, even a clapped out unit will go okay. The advantage of the EJ over the EA are numerous and sometimes teadious:

- no lifter tick (I'd like this)
- better torque and power
- later model engine - easier to get parts
- better engine design all round
- bigger engine in a lighter body than what it came out with from the factory = impressive performance and possibly better economy if driven correctly.

Cheers

Bennie

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:45 am

Hey guys a super thanks to everyone so far for the massive ammounts of supportive tips and comments...

Just so you know im 28 and had alot of cars in my time. Been into four wheel drives for about 8 years and had a few MQ patols, a Marverick ( GQ ), a LandRover Discovery (Eeeeeew), Sierra which i paid to get an efi conversion done.

Even though i cant really compare the Zook with the subi i can guess the performance just by peoples comments all over the place... The EA82 just wont do the job from what i have read... I cant stand really slow cars as i go away fishing once a month and it invloves alot of kms and in a slow car its torture... Yes the vehicel will be used for offroad use, im 100% sure of that..

From what i have read a 3" body lift is a sure thing and some 14's... to be honest i really really like the look of alex's car, Wanky is it;)... So whatever that has...lol..

But seriously im after a car that can do beaches with ease...(Fingers crossed)
has a bit of get up and go around town, can return reasonable fuel figures and has a reputation for being realiable. So i hope im on the right track..

Cheers guys

Marc

I have about 6 to 8 weeks to gather as much info as possible before i start getting stuff together, cant wait thats for sure:mrgreen:

Post by **Alex** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:06 am

welcome to the group mate.

dont blame ya for liking wanky...i like her abit myself haha.

trust me, like i wrote in PM's an ej22 converted wagon goes like the clappas both on and offroad. Youll be more than impressed with the power and fuel figures.

give us a shout if ya need a hand with anything. We are all willing to help!

alex

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:49 am

LOL alex seen u on youtube messing round..... classic..

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:27 pm

i think you should be able to find a few second hand Lift kits around Perth mate.

maybe one 3 inch and 2 4 inch's ?? but not sure on whos actually selling right now.

a 4inch kit would always be nicer though

goodluck with it mate a few of us have done it now and can help you out if you need.

Shark · Post by **Shark** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:19 pm

Thanks heaps guys, its great to know that people are out there that are willing to help... I know its gonna be a good learning experience for me and even though i have some mechanical knowledge and by no means have the knowledge for an engine conversion and will posting my stresses on an hourly basis when i start...lol..

But for now im just gonna keep hunting for info until i feel i am ready..

Is 3" body lift kit enough clearance for some beach work on some 14's?

Marc...

Oh and im still keen if anyone wants to take me for a drive, willing to pay for the fuel too:)

Subafury · Post by **Subafury** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:40 pm

[quote="Subafury"]As for the cost, ill give you a proper tally soon when i finish mine QUOTE]

I kept track of what i spent on my conversion, and managed to get away with it pretty cheap i reckon. heres the main relevant bits from my tally. i ended up spending a bit extra on engine bay respary etc, and a lemon motor/car but yeh the basics are below.
______________________________________________________________
bought privately owned EJ22 engine with lots of k's plus radiator and harness $600

Got 2000lbs pressure plate (second hand) new clutch fibre, machined flywheel n p plate. Clutch fork reinforced around ball.
New spigot bearing
$374

Adaptor plate
12mm Aluminium plate roughly 600mm x 600mm
$156.99 - enough for 2

Jigsaw Blades to cut out adapter plate.
$25

Wiring cut down $150 cash from an expert

New Gaskets/ Timing belt Kit
$280

Water pump $80

Exhaust $40 for a small extension and join to existing system
Accel cable $20
new engine x member bolts - too rusty $12
Various fluids, degreaser etc from supercheap $30
+ steel for radiator mount and other small bits $50

TOTAL $1667.99
so there ya go, can be done cheaply, for the bare minimum student's budget

.

vincentvega · Post by **vincentvega** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:51 pm

a 2" kit is plenty for just running up the beach. go as high as you like, just dont feel you have to

username · Post by **username** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:20 pm

GOD wrote:One key difference between early subies and other 4wds is that they don't have a centre diff, so if you have it in 4wd on a sealed surface, things will break.

Yep. Does anyone have any idea as to what the first thing to go would be? When mine is in 4wd it just shudders and doesnt really move anywhere. I'm thinking maybe its the selector itself but im not too sure. Any ideas on what one of these will cost second hand or how difficult to replace if that is the cause?

Cheers,

Jake.

Matatak · Post by **Matatak** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:44 am

is that going straight?

id check all tyres are same size and diff ratios are same.

username · Post by **username** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:16 pm

Yeah in a straight line, I just got 27's all round so they're all the same size. As for diff ratios, i havn't changed them. It used to work fine, but yeah now you can't go over 10 kmh without the car shaking a scary amount. To get the car out of 4wd i have to reverse and wrestle with the selector.

Cheers,

Jake.